Low end nihonto

[StephenJN]

Sorry to interrupt, and I hope I'm not derailing this thread - but I do have a question regarding Low End Nihonto.

I see stores on Ebay such as Katana nihonto (based in Japan) selling "Antique real Japanese Samurai sword"s signed by various makers for what are ridiculously cheap.
I assume they are all Gimei, (they have no papers) but are they even real? Are "fake" swords sold out of Japan?
Or are they just low end swords in bad condition made by nobodies (of note), but genuinely old?
Were/are there a lot of unremarkable but old nihonto floating around in Japan? 
Apologies in advance for my ignorance.

Antique real Japanese Samurai long sword Katana signed Kiyomitsu saku #354 | eBay Australia
Antique real Japanese Samurai sword Katana Wakizashi signed Narimune #369 | eBay Australia


 

[Brian]

16 minutes ago, StephenJN said:

Were/are there a lot of unremarkable but old nihonto floating around in Japan? 
 

Crazy amounts. As in an endless supply. All genuine, but not seen as worthy for condition or cost of restoration reasons.

[StephenJN]

Just now, Brian said:

Crazy amounts. As in an endless supply. All genuine, but not seen as worthy for condition or cost of restoration reasons.

Wow, that just blows my mind. 
It's not a lot of money for an object that's possibly 300+ years old, even if it wasn't made particularly well or by someone notable.
And it was an object that was important to many people along the way to look after it, for a very long time..
Genuine european sabres and swords of lesser vintage can cost more (though I guess there's probably fewer of them.)

[Rayhan]

4 minutes ago, StephenJN said:

Wow, that just blows my mind. 
It's not a lot of money for an object that's possibly 300+ years old, even if it wasn't made particularly well or by someone notable.
And it was an object that was important to many people along the way to look after it, for a very long time..
Genuine european sabres and swords of lesser vintage can cost more (though I guess there's probably fewer of them.)

I and my descendants can look after a plastic plate for 300 years plus and it's still a plastic plate. 

 

But, there will undoubtedly be a member from @Matsunoki client base or the NMB that pays 2k for it down the line so there is that positive. 

[Matsunoki]

11 minutes ago, Rayhan said:

But, there will undoubtedly be a member from @Matsunoki client base or the NMB that pays 2k for it down the line so there is that positive. 

I guess you just don’t like anyone disagreeing with you and so you continue to insult with absolutely no knowledge…..just assumptions. All you display is disrespect for perfectly genuine items collected by enthusiastic collectors who are happy with them for a variety of different reasons. If you don’t value them fine but why be so obnoxious? 

I must have really got under your skin which is obviously very thin. Sorry about that.

 

 

[Alex A]

33 minutes ago, Rayhan said:

 

 

But, there will undoubtedly be a member from @Matsunoki client base or the NMB that pays 2k for it down the line so there is that positive. 

 

Would say most stuff for sale here, sellers take an hit, contrary to what you state.

[Rayhan]

13 minutes ago, Matsunoki said:

I guess you just don’t like anyone disagreeing with you and so you continue to insult with absolutely no knowledge…..just assumptions. All you display is disrespect for perfectly genuine items collected by enthusiastic collectors who are happy with them for a variety of different reasons. If you don’t value them fine but why be so obnoxious? 

I must have really got under your skin which is obviously very thin. Sorry about that.

 

 

Not at all just saying it the way you like it. Anyone who knows no better will be happy with the plastic plate. What other option is there?

[Rayhan]

5 minutes ago, Alex A said:

 

Would say most stuff for sale here, sellers take an hit, contrary to what you state.

I wasn't speaking about buyers and sellers in the commercial sections of the NMB. Apologies if it read like that.

[Matsunoki]

OK @Rayhan, of all the swords that I have sold please tell me which ones people should not have bought and why. 
Let’s stick to facts, not plastic plates or assumptions. 
Let’s not base our answers on the prices I sold them for because that tells us nothing.

You obviously know what I’ve sold and who bought them (including many members on this Forum and the UK Token Society) so fire away.

 

[Hokke]

3 hours ago, Rayhan said:

You know after careful consideration i also think it's essential to have people buying out the low low cost nihonto. The hobby needs people like that, it helps those that want the best for their budgets (saved budgets or otherwise). If everyone was going after the better nihonto what would the rest of us do eh?

It seems to me you have had some kind of epiphany, so I guess I have to say you're welcome. It's difficult to if not impossible to change the mind of a narcissist who believes they are superior in knowledge to the rest of us muggles. Wait, but thats a complete 180 degree shift. You are actually admitting to being wrong? Thats almost too good to be true. Hmmmm......

No, I think the real reason for your post, as Colin alluded to, is that you are butthurt that your thread was locked. Not only locked, but locked on a post that called you out for what you have shown yourself to be. After a day or two of reflection and crying, you looked in the mirror and thought, "im better than this, how dare someone question my perfection"

Unsatisfied with this travesty and unable to control your childish nature, you decided to throw your tantrum in another members thread, just you can feel like you had the last word. The problem is, that the feeling of elation, which is like a drug to you only lasted but a few brief moments. That feeling has only gotten shorter and shorter over the years because that how addiction works. 

So keep chasing that high, makes no difference to me, I am happy to be your thorn. Dealing with individuals like you is fresh bread for me, oh how I love fresh bread.

[Rayhan]

6 minutes ago, Hokke said:

It seems to me you have had some kind of epiphany, so I guess I have to say you're welcome. It's difficult to if not impossible to change the mind of a narcissist who believes they are superior in knowledge to the rest of us muggles. Wait, but thats a complete 180 degree shift. You are actually admitting to being wrong? Thats almost too good to be true. Hmmmm......

No, I think the real reason for your post, as Colin alluded to, is that you are butthurt that your thread was locked. Not only locked, but locked on a post that called you out for what you have shown yourself to be. After a day or two of reflection and crying, you looked in the mirror and thought, "im better than this, how dare someone question my perfection"

Unsatisfied with this travesty and unable to control your childish nature, you decided to throw your tantrum in another members thread, just you can feel like you had the last word. The problem is, that the feeling of elation, which is like a drug to you only lasted but a few brief moments. That feeling has only gotten shorter and shorter over the years because that how addiction works. 

So keep chasing that high, makes no difference to me, I am happy to be your thorn. Dealing with individuals like you is fresh bread for me, oh how I love fresh bread.

So you saw the sarcasm, very good. How you feel free to revel in your last post on the previous thread with the assistance of @Scogg (told you Sam). Just because the moderator took your side means nothing, there are plenty who understand that your crassness is down to your circumstances man. Very sad.

[Rayhan]

17 minutes ago, Matsunoki said:

OK @Rayhan, of all the swords that I have sold please tell me which ones people should not have bought and why. 
Let’s stick to facts, not plastic plates or assumptions. 
Let’s not base our answers on the prices I sold them for because that tells us nothing.

You obviously know what I’ve sold and who bought them (including many members on this Forum and the UK Token Society) so fire away.

 

You said it yourself 195 swords sold on the cheap right. What else needs to be said. How dealers like you pull the wool over the eyes of hard working individuals who are looking for a quality purchase doesn't make any sense to me. Using the Token Society as a platform to do it no less. Well at least they have helped fund your collection. 

[Hokke]

Just now, Rayhan said:

So you saw the sarcasm, very good. How you feel free to revel in your last post on the previous thread with the assistance of @Scogg (told you Sam). Just because the moderator took your side means nothing, there are plenty who understand that your crassness is down to your circumstances man. Very sad.

That's how you saw it huh, someone "took my side". You have problems my delicate friend. But guess what, your precious thread is now reopened, not that it matters since you hijacked a thread when your likely request wasn't granted quickly enough for your ego. So post away, I cant wait......

[Hokke]

3 minutes ago, Rayhan said:

You said it yourself 195 swords sold on the cheap right. What else needs to be said. How dealers like you pull the wool over the eyes of hard working individuals who are looking for a quality purchase doesn't make any sense to me. Using the Token Society as a platform to do it no less. Well at least they have helped fund your collection. 

Wow, accusing another member of being greedy and conniving in their business practices. Cant wait to see where this goes........

[Matsunoki]

Try to stay with it mate…..I am not a dealer, simply selling my collection. In your anger to spout I  think you lose track a bit.

 

Check what I said, I didn’t say I sold them “on the cheap”

 

STICK TO WHAT YOU KNOW, NOT  WHAT YOU THINK YOU KNOW. TRY TO UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE.

 

In other words you don’t have the slightest clue about me, what I’ve sold or anything else. You cannot offer a single fact to back up your insults and insinuations. Everything is based on your imagination and very obviously driven by an insatiable ego.

You  obviously have no idea how or why a market works the way it does. 

 

You are making yourself look like a total idiot. Whether you are one or not I cannot say but I could guess.

[Rayhan]

1 minute ago, Matsunoki said:

Try to stay with it mate…..I am not a dealer, simply selling my collection. In your anger to spout I  think you lose track a bit.

 

Check what I said, I didn’t say I sold them “on the cheap”

 

STICK TO WHAT YOU KNOW, NOT  WHAT YOU THINK YOU KNOW. TRY TO UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE.

 

In other words you don’t have the slightest clue about me, what I’ve sold or anything else. You cannot offer a single fact to back up your insults and insinuations. Everything is based on your imagination and very obviously driven by an insatiable ego.

You  obviously have no idea how or why a market works the way it does. 

 

You are making yourself look like a total idiot. Whether you are one or not I cannot say but I could guess.

Colin you're very well known and what you sell is also known both by reputation. Some people will be happy with you and their purchases because they have no option but to be so. Please don't start pulling a new veil down to feign ignorance or because I've not seen you "high end" offerings. And you're a dealer.

[Rayhan]

12 minutes ago, Hokke said:

That's how you saw it huh, someone "took my side". You have problems my delicate friend. But guess what, your precious thread is now reopened, not that it matters since you hijacked a thread when your likely request wasn't granted quickly enough for your ego. So post away, I cant wait......

Got that Florida redneck out in the open eh buddy

[John C]

PLEASE, everyone. Can we save the vitriol for facebook where it belongs? Let's talk swords instead.

 

John C.

[Matsunoki]

Just now, Rayhan said:

Colin you're very well known and what you sell is also known both by reputation. Some people will be happy with you and their purchases because they have no option but to be so. Please don't start pulling a new veil down to feign ignorance or because I've not seen you "high end" offerings. And you're a dealer.

Still no facts. Just more insinuations. And everyone has an option not to buy something.

Please ……facts. You do know what a fact is?

…..and I am not a dealer. When the last 5 swords are gone that’s it. 
 

1 minute ago, John C said:

PLEASE, everyone. Can we save the vitriol for facebook where it belongs? Let's talk swords instead.

John, fine by me but I’m not usually one to back down when facing personal attacks and insults. Whether face to face or from a keyboard warrior. I’ll shut up and let people draw whatever conclusion they like. 
 

Bye Rayhan….be happy.

[Rayhan]

23 minutes ago, Matsunoki said:

Still no facts. Just more insinuations. And everyone has an option not to buy something.

Please ……facts. You do know what a fact is?

…..and I am not a dealer. When the last 5 swords are gone that’s it. 
 

John, fine by me but I’m not usually one to back down when facing personal attacks and insults. Whether face to face or from a keyboard warrior. I’ll shut up and let people draw whatever conclusion they like. 
 

Bye Rayhan….be happy.

Fact is the last 5 swords will be gone and unsuspecting buyers helped fund your NEW armour collection,  well played Colin.

[Matsunoki]

Bye Rayhan.

[Rayhan]

11 minutes ago, Matsunoki said:

Bye Rayhan.

Byeee

[Scogg]

I’d like to clarify my actions regarding the locked thread.
 

I locked the discussion after repeated warnings to stop the arguing were ignored. My intent wasn’t to take sides, but to stop an unproductive exchange and ease the burden on Brian during his recovery.
 

The comment “hard words but well said” was in response to a personal accusation about how I interpreted tone. I see now how it could be taken as biased, and I regret saying it, I apologize.
 

I strive to moderate fairly and objectively, but I’m not infallible. Since I’m now personally involved, I’ll step back and leave this matter for @Brian to handle when he’s able. Lets please be patient and keep it as civil as possible in the meantime, and that's directed evenly at everyone. 
 

Sincerely,
-Sam

[Brian]

I have every confidence in Sam's decisions. He made the right choice. I opened it again for people to have their last say so that no-one blames Sam. Then I can lock it again like I am going to do to this one, and then people can blame me.
Enough of this bullshit.