Sukesada sword - thoughts on value, any info on koshirae?

[Kratos]

Sukesada sword  full pictures and videos

 

Just got my first sword. Paid up for it and got killed by tariffs. Any thoughts on value? There is also signatures under the tsuba if anyone can translate. 

 

https://imgur.com/gallery/RrH6EWf

[DENihontocollector]

Hi Kratos,

 

I took a closer look at the photos, videos and the paperwork. The sword is an Osafune Sukesada from the Bizen tradition, dated to the 10th year of Tenshō (1582), so right at the end of the Sengoku period. The long signature on the tang matches that date exactly.

 

The NBTHK certificate is Hozon, that confirms both authenticity and quality. The overall style and shape fit really well with late Bizen work – slimmer sugata, clear hamon line, and very much in line with Osafune workmanship from that period.

 

The koshirae is complete and features a dragon motif (fuchi-kashira and openwork tsuba). I’d put the fittings stylistically in late Edo, but they’re still collectible in their own right and add nicely to the package.

 

All in all, it’s a well-documented piece with clear historical context and attractive mountings – definitely an interesting find for anyone looking for an authentic Bizen sword with a full koshirae.

 

the signature on the Koshirae could be read as “Made by Masashige” ?

This is most likely either the name of the craftsman who made the koshirae or possibly the name of a former owner?

Blade length 74,2cm? Could that be?

This is just roughly what i’m seeing as a first impression from the pics and the paperwork, but i’m definitely not an expert, so i’d love to hear what others think.

 

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[Sebuh]

No idea on the value, but it’s a pretty blade with an equally as nice mounting in my own opinion. Quite nice, enjoy!

[SteveM]

Signature on the fuchi reads 壽家（花押）Toshiie (monogram). 

 

Writing on the wooden part of the koshirae that is normally under the fuchi looks like it reads 黒 (black) then 佐 + something, maybe 佐中 (Sanaka, a surname). I think this bit is just a note written by/for the koshirae maker, or maybe for the ito-maki shi.  

[Nobody]

1 hour ago, DENihontocollector said:

..............................................................................

 

The NBTHK certificate is Tokubetsu Hozon, which is a pretty high ranking that confirms both authenticity and quality. The overall style and shape fit really well with late Bizen work – slimmer sugata, clear hamon line, and very much in line with Osafune workmanship from that period.

 

.................................................................

 

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The NBTHK paper is Hozon.

[MEENag]

3 hours ago, Kratos said:

 

 

Just got my first sword. Paid up for it and got killed by tariffs. 

 

So we are paying tariffs on antiques? I was hoping that was not going to be the case. My first nihonto is sitting in customs in Chicago. 

[Kratos]

Just now, MEENag said:

So we are paying tariffs on antiques? I was hoping that was not going to be the case. My first nihonto is sitting in customs in Chicago. 

IEEPA reciprocal tarriff still applies and then had to do formal entry so posting of bond

[MEENag]

17 minutes ago, Kratos said:

IEEPA reciprocal tarriff still applies and then had to do formal entry so posting of bond

How long ago did yours come through customs? Before Trump reached the deal with Japan last week? Some AI generated info indicates that may replace IEEPA. If so, I’m hoping the art/antique exemption is back in effect.  
Also hoping I don’t hear anything from customs until next week, after 8/1 since that is when new deal with Japan starts… if it isn’t already ratified ( unclear right now). 

[Kratos]

Been stuck in customs since 7/8. Got it today

26 minutes ago, MEENag said:

So we are paying tariffs on antiques? I was hoping that was not going to be the case. My first nihonto is sitting in customs in Chicago. 

IEEPA reciprocal tarriff still applies and then had to do formal entry so posting of bond

[DENihontocollector]

3 hours ago, Nobody said:

The NBTHK paper is Hozon.

Yes, it is. I corrected that in my latest post, sorry! 

I just realized I was too quick when I first looked at the papers – I actually thought it was Tokubetsu Hozon, but it turns out it’s Hozon. My mistake for rushing through it!

 

[Kratos]

39 minutes ago, DENihontocollector said:

Yes, it is. I corrected that in my latest post, sorry! 

I just realized I was too quick when I first looked at the papers – I actually thought it was Tokubetsu Hozon, but it turns out it’s Hozon. My mistake for rushing through it!

 

Token Hozen, right?

[DENihontocollector]

7 minutes ago, Kratos said:

oken Hozen, right?

Yes  Congrats to your first sword!

[DENihontocollector]

 

Historical Context for Your Sukesada

• 1467–1615: Sengoku Period

• 1582: Year of the Battle of Yamazaki, death of Oda Nobunaga, and the beginning of Toyotomi Hideyoshi’s rise to power.

• Your sword was forged while Japan was still deeply embroiled in civil war, but just on the verge of unification under Hideyoshi and later Tokugawa Ieyasu.

 

Significance for the Sword

• Late Sukesada blades were often made for wartime use — functional, yet still finely crafted in pieces like yours.

• The long signature with a date is typical for this era; many blades were produced for specific commissions or military leaders.

• Historically, it belongs to the last “classic Bizen war swords” before the Edo period (from 1603 onward) when more representative katana were produced.

 

This was researched by AI, but you can also find it easily just by googling if you know the data of the papers.

 

Hope this helps you get a better idea of where your sword fits.
Best wishes
Dennis

 

 

[Cola]

13 hours ago, DENihontocollector said:

 

 

Historical Context for Your Sukesada

• 1467–1615: Sengoku Period

• 1582: Year of the Battle of Yamazaki, death of Oda Nobunaga, and the beginning of Toyotomi Hideyoshi’s rise to power.

• Your sword was forged while Japan was still deeply embroiled in civil war, but just on the verge of unification under Hideyoshi and later Tokugawa Ieyasu.

 

 

Significance for the Sword

• Late Sukesada blades were often made for wartime use — functional, yet still finely crafted in pieces like yours.

• The long signature with a date is typical for this era; many blades were produced for specific commissions or military leaders.

• Historically, it belongs to the last “classic Bizen war swords” before the Edo period (from 1603 onward) when more representative katana were produced.

 

Hope this helps you get a better idea of where your sword fits.
Best wishes
Dennis

 

 

 

Thanks chatGPT!

[DENihontocollector]

4 minutes ago, Cola said:

Thanks chatGPT!

Correct! But it is not wrong or? Im pretty sure, im not the only one that use it here and there

[Scogg]

Hi Dennis,
 

It appears it got the papers wrong; and we've found that AI can be incorrect or misleading when it comes to Nihonto. Over the last couple years, we've had a few discussions that have tested the capabilities of AI and Nihonto with varying degrees of success.
 

That said, this is a public forum made up of real people who genuinely appreciate their swords. Most of us prefer to engage in conversation with others who share that same appreciation; not with AI-generated content.

 

Using AI for things like improving grammar, clarifying wording, assisting with research, or helping with the occasional translation is one thing. But when the majority of someone's posts are copy/pasted AI content, it starts to feel less like a conversation and more like talking to a robot.
 

So I suppose the real question is: do you want to be part of this community as Dennis, or as ChatGPT?

With respect,

-Sam

[Cola]

43 minutes ago, DENihontocollector said:

Correct! But it is not wrong or? Im pretty sure, im not the only one that use it here and there

 

It's fine if you are clear about where your answers come from. If you don't it's fraudlent: you are passing yourself as an expert while you are in fact just echoing the output of a language model.

Then people can choose for themselves if they want to give this AI generated drivel any of their time.

Also you should know that the content is just not very good. Statements like: "The long signature on the tang matches that date exactly." are just plain stupid, the date on the papers is copied from the tang, so yes obviously they match exactly. 

[DENihontocollector]

I just wanted to clarify something about my posts:

I always write them myself, even in English, but sometimes I have them reworded so they read more smoothly. My goal is simply to express myself as clearly as possible, because I’m still missing some vocabulary and I want to make sure my thoughts come across the way I intend.

 

I also want to apologize that some incorrect information ended up in my posts when I used AI tools. That was never my intention. Going forward, if I use AI at all, I’ll double-check everything myself to make sure it’s accurate before I share it, and I’ll make sure to cite the sources if I pull any data or information through AI tools.

 

I’m also aware that the style of my posts might sometimes sound like AI, that’s not what I want. I’ll make an effort to keep that in check and rely on AI rewrites as little as possible going forward so my posts feel more personal and clearly from me.

 

I think there are probably others here who also use translators because they’re in a similar situation to mine.That’s why I really appreciate the patience and understanding of the community. Thanks for the feedback, I’ll take it to heart.

 

And who knows, the longer I participate here and read posts, the better my English will probably get, and eventually I won’t be missing the technical terms anymore to express myself more clearly

Now, please get back to the topic and help this guy out with his new sword.

Sorry again,
Dennis

[Scogg]

Thank you Dennis, well said, and I appreciate the clarity. I wish you the best, and look forward to your future input here on the board. 

Thats enough AI talk for now, everyone. 

Lets get back to the Sukesada 

-Sam 

[DENihontocollector]

8 hours ago, Cola said:

Also you should know that the content is just not very good. Statements like: "The long signature on the tang matches that date exactly." are just plain stupid, the date on the papers is copied from the tang, so yes obviously they match exactly. 

I wasn’t pointing out that the papers repeat the date, that’s obvious, but that the style and length of the signature itself is typical for the late Sengoku period, which independently supports that dating.
You can google that as well.
1. source: https://nihonto.com/a-brief-study-of-bizen-blades-of-the-muromachi-era/

2.From this comments, I got the impression that the length of the signature is considered as kanteipoints, basically stylistic clues to judge the blade’s quality and period. Also it says something about the value and in this case - higher value.  But I might be wrong, of course.
   I just looked it up here in our forum:3. source: In this context, it mentions that individual, high‑quality blades of this period bore full inscriptions on the nakago, including the smith’s name, province, and date, which is the classic nagamei format.
https://markussesko.com/2013/03 
Might be a wrong interpretation, but it explains what I was trying to say.

Im sorry for misunderstanding my intention, but thats exactly what I meant in my previous post. Sometimes I can’t put it into words the way I’d like to.
And again, I´m not an expert as mentioned before.
 

 

[Winchester]

I am not an expert but I believe the notion that: a long signature with a date being ‘typical’, is not accurate.

 

ETA: Referring to the date.

 

 

Edited yesterday at 02:12 PM by Winchester
Clarity

[DENihontocollector]

Long signatures are usually made for commissioned works, thats a fact.

 

But in general,
from what I have read about signatures so far, from Kamakura period up to Muromachi mostly shorter mei´s with only the smith´s name were common.
In the Muromachi period long signatures become more common (Name, date,province, etc.)
In the Shinto period signatures became shorter again mostly with smith´s name and saku (made by).

 

These statements were often secondary citations in forums or blogs allegedly from the following sources:

• Markus Sesko, Encyclopedia of Japanese Swords, Enty "Mei"
• Kanzan Sato, The Japanese Sword, Chapter "Signatures and Dates"

So what is my conclusion:
In this context for me the result was:
long signatures were most frequently done in the period Muromachi/Sengoku where this sukesada sword was made.
Of course in this period there were short signatures too, but only for mass production swords.

 

What that could mean for the sukesada owner. His sword was an commissioned work and not a mass production sword in the muromachi period. So far I know,the time this sword was crafted was in wartimes (civil war).

In wartimes more swords were ordered and made. That means more mass production swords.
So the value of this sword is above average for this period and smith. Also the long signature additionally underlines authenticity regarding the period it was made.

Maybe we have an Signature expert here on the forums and he can help out
Im not an expert, I just researched about Signatures 

[Geraint]

Dear Dennis.

 

Moving somewhat away from the Sukesada but to address a point from your summary above it is certainly inaccurate to assume that Shinto swordsmiths reverted to shorter mei.  Nagayama Kokan in 'The Connoisseur's Book of Japanese Swords' states what most would recognise, that nagamei were a feature of swords in Shinto and after.  Examples will be easy to find but mei such as Echizen ju Harima daijo Fujiwara Shigetaka, Hoshu Takada ju Fujiwara Sadayuki and others should make the point.

 

Marcus Sesko has an entry of mei in his Encyclopedia but it simply says 'signature'.  There is singularly little in Kanzan Sato's book about mei so the blogs you are referencing seem to have confused the issue.

 

Hope this helps.

 

All the best.

[Jussi Ekholm]

Seems like a nice sword, unfortunately cannot see the details in the video too well. Swords in overall got bit longer during Tenshō period so it is not too uncommon to see these bit longer Sukesada swords during the period.

 

One negative thing for me personally would be the red lacquer stripe on the saya. Dragon fittings are not my thing either. I think you got nice overall package, as for the value you can search Sukesada swords from Japanese dealers and get some reference prices.

[DENihontocollector]

33 minutes ago, Geraint said:

Hope this helps

Hi Geraint,
Of course this helps a lot!
If I would own the books, I would check it myself but I don't have them unfortunately. Now I know, the quotes in the Blogs/Forums were more distorted than the truth.
So okay, I have to accept, that this is more a dead end in this case.