Deez77 Posted July 5 Report Posted July 5 Hi all, I'm looking for some help on identifying what plant is depicted on this tsuba. I've tried in vain with chatgpt, but couldn't pinpoint it. Many thanks Damon Quote
Franco Posted July 5 Report Posted July 5 Definitely a fern I would say. Exactly which kind you'll have to figure out. 1 Quote
Spartancrest Posted July 5 Report Posted July 5 Superficially the leaves look a little like Plantain or banana - but not the trunk of the plant - the trunk or stem is not found on ferns either. Not a Cycad or Sago palm - they don't have the smooth bark. Maybe a small plant or shrub? Daikon was a common theme but the leaves don't look like they fit - mystery! You might find it in this thread - big list of plants used on tosogu designs. Plantain. 1 Quote
Bugyotsuji Posted July 5 Report Posted July 5 Try ‘sotetsu’ Damon, and the story of the Ukita being banished for centuries to Hachijojima Island. 3 1 Quote
Bugyotsuji Posted July 5 Report Posted July 5 Sotetsu were given to Okayama and planted at the temple to Ukita Hideie, so it could symbolize this gift from Hachijo-jima. Another possibility is the New Year's kadomatsu ceremony where a whole baby pine was used, with roots. Some pine branch outlines and needles look quite similar. 2 1 Quote
goo Posted July 5 Report Posted July 5 The roots look like an octopus or squid tentacles with an eye part way centered on the stalk. 2 Quote
MauroP Posted July 5 Report Posted July 5 The plant depicted is 樅 - momi - Japanese fir. see: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/gew1fwujq25us4bpahzst/FHJ.pdf?rlkey=xqwem1jg9d243ej1wmub7a0hr&st=l12r1vch&dl=0 2 1 Quote
Jesta Posted July 6 Report Posted July 6 The root part looks very like ginseng, but the leaves are wrong. There is always a good chance that the artist wasn’t that good at depicting plants, and just went with the space available. 1 1 Quote
FlorianB Posted July 6 Report Posted July 6 Rather strange. At first I thought of a bonsai tree - but without a bowl? Is there something on the reverse wich could clearify the motif? 1 1 Quote
Franco Posted July 6 Report Posted July 6 (edited) Thoughts have turned to a feather like feature of underwater plants that perhaps filter feed? Crinoids, also known as feather stars or sea lilies, maybe? Wondering if the bird depicts a Chidori, which would hint towards an underwater sea plant? Edited July 6 by Franco 1 Quote
Spartancrest Posted July 6 Report Posted July 6 I think it is young pine or "sugi" cedar used in the newyears celebrations. Note the roots of the plant and feather like branches with the thicker three "lobes" at the top of each branch. I think the original image from Damon just shows it more stylized and simplified. Seen on this guard but not with the roots which are encased [Walters 51241] 5 1 Quote
Jesta Posted July 7 Report Posted July 7 14 hours ago, Spartancrest said: I think it is young pine or "sugi" cedar used in the newyears celebrations. Note the roots of the plant and feather like branches with the thicker three "lobes" at the top of each branch. I think the original image from Damon just shows it more stylized and simplified. Seen on this guard but not with the roots which are encased [Walters 51241] I think that Dale has nailed this one. The painting looks almost identical. 1 2 Quote
Deez77 Posted July 7 Author Report Posted July 7 Thanks a lot everyone. The ideas and input from everyone was amazing. It really took me on a journey through all of the different possibilities. The reverse doesn't provide any additional clues. Dale's example does look quite close, and one really can't discount the "stylized" factor. Thanks again everyone. For what it's worth, there appears to be (what I think is) a small repair using shakudo. I can't say I've seen something like that before, and wonder what might have caused the initial "damage." Damon Quote
Nobody Posted July 7 Report Posted July 7 On 7/5/2025 at 8:20 PM, Bugyotsuji said: Sotetsu were given to Okayama and planted at the temple to Ukita Hideie, so it could symbolize this gift from Hachijo-jima. Another possibility is the New Year's kadomatsu ceremony where a whole baby pine was used, with roots. Some pine branch outlines and needles look quite similar. Now I think that your another possibility is correct. A nebikimatsu (根引き松), that literally means “uprooted pines”, is a traditional Japanese New Year decoration used in Kyoto instead of kadomatsu. It is considered as the origin of kadomatsu. Ref. Nebikimatsu Wiki | Danbooru 4 5 Quote
Bugyotsuji Posted July 7 Report Posted July 7 Thank you Moriyama Sama for Nebiki-matsu, that is the word I was looking for! (Shown also in Dale's guard with the roots encased as Kadomatsu). 1 1 Quote
Bugyotsuji Posted July 23 Report Posted July 23 My Kozuka shows nematsu or nebikimatsu with orizuru paper crane. (Shakudo gold and silver. Mei: Nagamine or Eiho. 永峯) 1 Quote
Bugyotsuji Posted July 23 Report Posted July 23 And a ‘nikuhitsu’ painting by the hand of (Isoda) Masakatsu, Hōbashi Koryūsai, active 1776-82. Kadomatsu with wrapped roots 1 Quote
Jesta Posted July 24 Report Posted July 24 10 hours ago, Bugyotsuji said: And a ‘nikuhitsu’ painting by the hand of (Isoda) Masakatsu, Hōbashi Koryūsai, active 1776-82. Kadomatsu with wrapped roots Slightly off-topic, but what is the name for the type of fans that they are holding? I saw these on a tsuba recently, but I couldn’t think of how to describe them to get a name out of Google… 1 Quote
Nobody Posted July 24 Report Posted July 24 23 minutes ago, Jesta said: Slightly off-topic, but what is the name for the type of fans that they are holding? I saw these on a tsuba recently, but I couldn’t think of how to describe them to get a name out of Google… Ref. Hagoita - Wikipedia 2 Quote
Spartancrest Posted July 24 Report Posted July 24 https://varshavskycollection.com/collection/lib-3022.2022/ https://www.dollsmuseum.jp/shop/product/Japanese-traditional-oshie-hagoita-02/ https://mainichi.jp/english/graphs/20211126/hpe/00m/0et/002000g/20211126hpe00m0et015000q https://chidorivintage.com/en-au/products/Japanese-decorative-wooden-paddle-hagoita-kabuki-kimono-edo-jk745?srsltid=AfmBOooX9LbYKcLxvBbTLWt4kCD6qkyCtAow-LcNwpaw33vlf-QhV0Z3 2 Quote
Jesta Posted July 24 Report Posted July 24 1 hour ago, Spartancrest said: https://varshavskycollection.com/collection/lib-3022.2022/ https://www.dollsmuseum.jp/shop/product/Japanese-traditional-oshie-hagoita-02/ https://mainichi.jp/english/graphs/20211126/hpe/00m/0et/002000g/20211126hpe00m0et015000q https://chidorivintage.com/en-au/products/Japanese-decorative-wooden-paddle-hagoita-kabuki-kimono-edo-jk745?srsltid=AfmBOooX9LbYKcLxvBbTLWt4kCD6qkyCtAow-LcNwpaw33vlf-QhV0Z3 Thank you and Koichi. Judging from the book on fans (where they don’t seem to be represented) and the other articles, I couldn’t find them because they are not really fans, but paddles for a game. That would explain it 1 Quote
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