Mushin Posted January 29 Report Posted January 29 Jacques, where did you see a claim that these traits were exclusive to Shinto Kunimitsu? He said "commonly found," which is correct. Is this a language issue. or are you just being provocative? It's guess you are right: it's pointless to fight human stupidity... 1 1 Quote
Jacques Posted January 29 Report Posted January 29 (edited) 45 minutes ago, Mushin said: Jacques, where did you see a claim that these traits were exclusive to Shinto Kunimitsu? He said "commonly found," which is correct. Is this a language issue. or are you just being provocative? It's guess you are right: it's pointless to fight human stupidity... I don't think Lewis wrote that in the sense that you mean (I'm starting to know him quite well). If that is indeed the case, it's completely pointless. Now, you're right about one thing: I shouldn't have responded to you. Edited January 29 by Jacques 1 1 Quote
Lewis B Posted January 29 Author Report Posted January 29 I think everyone here knows you VERY well too Jacques. Personally I'm veering more towards provocative at this point. I meant it in exactly the way Bobby says. No one said the traits are unique to Shintogo but the similarities in forging style of that Awataguchi Nobukuni tanto and an archetypical Shintogo produced tanto suggest that there had been some influence in swordmaking technology, through contact with Nobukuni or any of his close associates. Historical references put them in the same region of Japan at the same time. So you're discounting any influence by the Awataguchi school? And why is it pointless to attempt to understand and test hypotheses on the origins and influences on Shintogo's swordmaking. No one will truly know of course since there are no contemporary historical documents to consult, but that still shouldn't prevent discussion on the subject. 2 1 Quote
Jacques Posted January 29 Report Posted January 29 Quote I think everyone here knows you VERY well too Jacques Absolutely no, I can see when someone knows or don't know. You are far from being in this case. I have no reason to be modest. I know my limits, and you have a very long way to go before you reach them. Am I clear enough? 1 2 Quote
Rivkin Posted January 29 Report Posted January 29 1 hour ago, Jacques said: Absolutely no, I can see when someone knows or don't know. You are far from being in this case. I have no reason to be modest. I know my limits, and you have a very long way to go before you reach them. Am I clear enough? You are doing it wrong, Jacques. You are supposed to say "I am but an eternal student of the sword, humble in knowledge". You friend is then supposed to chime in with "Jacques is a Scholarly Scholar! Celestial star, who shines over the True Path", etc. etc.. 1 1 3 4 Quote
Lewis B Posted January 30 Author Report Posted January 30 If I had a time machine I would like to know more about Norishige's origins. Nothing is known about his father or earliest swordmaking experience. I believe he was already trained in the basics before arriving at the Shintogo Kunimitsu workshop and was there for a short time to master the new forging techniques pioneered by Shintogo, which he then incorporated into his own distinctive forging style. In contrast to the other connected members of the atelier Norishige seems to be a bit of an outsider, coming from a backwater province with no strong tradition of sword making prior to Norishige and therefore no apparent pedigree. There are Shintogo's 3 sons, Yukimitsu (son of nidai Bungo Yukihira, not the earlier gobankaji Yukihira), Masamune (son, adopted son or younger brother of Yukimitsu) and then this outlier Norishige. Shintogo must have thought highly of this young smith to take him on. 3 Quote
Lewis B Posted February 4 Author Report Posted February 4 Thanks to @MassiveMoonHehfor posting the Yamanaka Newsletters. A quick perusal uncovered a Kokuho tanto signed Kunimitsu. What caught my eye was that this blade is described as having an iori-mune, which is incredibly rare amongst all Shintogo tanto. I have only come across one other Shintogo tanto with iori-mune and that was described as Katakiriha-tsukuri. The takenoko-zori is also intriguing. Anyone have a link to oshigata or more info on this Kokuho sword? Extract from the Newsletter Kunimitsu 国光 (新藤五) Tanto Length: 42.3 cm (this has to be total length) Width: 2.1 cm Shape and Construction: Hiratsukuri, and takenoko sori. The mune is ihorimune. Hamon: The Hamon is hiro suguha with ashi, and there are abundant nie all along the hamon, and especially along the hamon edge. Kinsuji are seen along the hamon too. Boshi: The boshi has a komaru with a kaeri which is a little longer than the usual Kunimitsu, and there are small hakikake at the very tip of the boshi. Jitetsu and Hada: The hada is ko-itame hada and tightly forged. There are abundant ji nie all along the blade, and these form chikei in places. Nakago: The Nakago has been shortened a little and the tip is cut in kiri. The file marks are katte sagari of which very little can be seen due to age. There are two mekugi ana and the one at the top has been partially plugged. There is a two character inscription “Kunimitsu” on the omote side. This Kunimitsu is probably is probably the least conventional Kunimitsu work, and when compared to the other two kokuho Kunimitsu, it is a little Inferior, although the steel of the blade certainly is just as good as the other two. Kunimitsu is more of a master at making tanto than making tachi. There are very few tachi blades by Kunimitsu, although tanto are seen in greater numbers. Also, Kunimitsu is regarded as one of the better sword smiths who made tanto, along with such other masters like Awataguchi Toshiro Yoshimitsu, Soshu Masamune, Sa, and Rai Kunitoshi, and possibly Rai Kunimitsu and Kunitsugu. The fact that the hamon of this Kunimitsu is hiro suguha attests to the fact that this blade has been well preserved. 2 Quote
Jacques Posted February 4 Report Posted February 4 (edited) Quote Length: 42.3 cm (this has to be total length) Wonder Nagasa 25.2 cm Edited February 4 by Jacques 1 Quote
nulldevice Posted February 5 Report Posted February 5 5 hours ago, Lewis B said: This Kunimitsu is probably is probably the least conventional Kunimitsu work, and when compared to the other two kokuho Kunimitsu, it is a little Inferior, although the steel of the blade certainly is just as good as the other two. Kunimitsu is more of a master at making tanto than making tachi. There are very few tachi blades by Kunimitsu, although tanto are seen in greater numbers. Also, Kunimitsu is regarded as one of the better sword smiths who made tanto, along with such other masters like Awataguchi Toshiro Yoshimitsu, Soshu Masamune, Sa, and Rai Kunitoshi, and possibly Rai Kunimitsu and Kunitsugu. The fact that the hamon of this Kunimitsu is hiro suguha attests to the fact that this blade has been well preserved. I just wanted to add some clarity to the above statement. I found this clarification by Honma Junji regarding Kunimitsu and his tachi to be enlightening to highlight what Shintogo Kunimitsu's "inferior tachi" really means. Quote While I have discussed tantō first because Kunimitsu's representative works are mostly tantō, there are also excellent tachi. The piece in the Seikadō collection shown in photographs in this book is one example. However, the traditional assessment that Shintōgo's tachi are inferior requires qualification—they are inferior only in comparison to his tantō. His tachi are generally slender, and even here his mastery of suguha is evident. Compared to, say, suguha tachi by Rai Kunitoshi, his are decidedly superior. 4 1 Quote
Lewis B Posted March 30 Author Report Posted March 30 (edited) Something that has always made me think is why Shintogo would sign his Mei the way he does in that unique style. The books suggest his father was Awataguchi Kunitsuna and that connection may explain why for example he strikes the vertical radical for kuni in a centrally positioned, straight line. Maybe because this is how his father chiselled the kanji? The positioning and dimensions of the tachi mei are also very similar placed, being placed high up the nakago near the munemachi and along the shinogi-ji. Here is one example from the famous Onimaru Kunitsuna tachi. Edited March 30 by Lewis B 1 Quote
CSM101 Posted March 30 Report Posted March 30 Just some informations... Token Bijutsu 588.pdf 1 Quote
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