Ghoul414 Posted March 7 Report Share Posted March 7 I bought this tsuba in a UK auction fairly recently because I liked the style and subject matter (who doesn't like a tiger?), but I actually don't know anything about it, and I'm not sure where to begin looking for the school/age/maker/etc. It is a shame its lost a bit of its gold and silver leaf, but I'm a big fan of iron anyhow - and it is actually my first tsuba that I bought that wasn't either attached to a sword or heavily rusted and in need of rescue. By the way, is there a reason the nagako ana has been shaped so much? Does that imply its been fitted to multiple different swords in the past? As always, any thoughts good or bad are welcome, George 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghoul414 Posted March 7 Author Report Share Posted March 7 I should add the auction description was just: Quote "A 18th century Japanese iron Tsuba sword guard with gilt decoration" Which was not particularly informative, hence my questions... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlorianB Posted March 8 Report Share Posted March 8 Hi George, sorry to be frank, but the carving seems a little bit crudely done. The modification around the nakago ana looks artificial to feign often usage. At least I’m not sure if it is Japanese at all. I hope, it wasn’t too expensive. Best, Florian 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghoul414 Posted March 8 Author Report Share Posted March 8 Hi Florian, Thanks for the thoughts - I'm still very much learning, but to me it doesn't look like a cast piece. The insides of the ana both seem consistent with wrought iron, as does the rim, sound, and general feel of it: There's definitely some evidence of wear on the top/bottom of the nagako ana too: But I do agree the styling of the tsuba is different from most - it is nowhere near as flashy as a lot of later pieces, but it also doesn't feel early to me either - was there a revival in older styles at some stage? As to cost, it was just less than £105 (unsure if a lot or a little, I bought it because I liked it). I would be very surprised to find out it wasn't Japanese though 😅 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlorianB Posted March 9 Report Share Posted March 9 The alteration of the nakago ana is most unusual, never seen this before. Customarily a flattening is made on both sides by hammering, here it looks like carved out. I can’t see any sense for this. I stick to my impression that this piece was made in some Chinese workshop. The silence of the other board members tells it own tale. However, take it as it is and if You enjoy it - it’s all right. Next time maybe a better catch! Best, Florian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steves87 Posted March 9 Report Share Posted March 9 I understand what Florian is saying, however to me, I think it is maybe the head of the figure that is "off" and this seems to influence the rest of the feeling towards the guard. Don't underestimate the power of human faces depicted on Tsuba... I feel that is why Soten pieces do so well. The nakago ana is not typical for sure, but this dishing is not unheard of (although usually the whole way round or either side as Florian says). In the case of this Tsuba, if you look at the third posted picture, you can see a bulg in the ana wall, this is what would happen with a hammer blow, so I am certain it has not been carved out in this case. The iron is remarkably free of rust and the patina appears quite consistent in the photos too (including in ana and tagane). Is the guard attracted to a magnet? There are cases of zogan being applied to appear worn (suri-heri/suri-hegashi, can't remember which one is on purpose), so don't necessarily get hooked up on that. Below are a couple of similar nakago-ana 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spartancrest Posted March 9 Report Share Posted March 9 What had me a little worried was the Tiger's head would be partly obscured when the tsuba was mounted - there are a "class" of guards like this that may have been intended as gifts or presentation pieces and not intended to be mounted though likely yours has. This totally different guard shows a Tiger with part of it's shoulder protruding into the seppa-dai and thus under any seppa once mounted. Your tsuba depicts Sennin Bukan Zenshi and his 'pet' Tiger, he was a monk who shocked other members of his sect by riding his Tiger around the grounds of the monastery. This auction site has a similar 'dug away' carved tsuba leaving part of the plate un-cut, the text says cast iron but I doubt it. It has some fine gold nunome but the characters faces are done rather poorly. https://www.invaluab...ze-9095-c-dc94101b62 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghoul414 Posted March 9 Author Report Share Posted March 9 I am right now a little lost - I spent most of yesterday running through all the tsuba schools I could find online, and wasn't able to find any combination of fukurin and similar carving style. Does anyone actually have a list of smaller schools, preferably edo and later? Online information seems really sparse for such a broad topic... The crux is, it is completely made of iron - the rim, the plate, and the carvings are all magnetic, and this puts it at odds with the more elaborate later shakudo tsuba it more closely resembles. @FlorianB - I honestly can't rule out it is a fake of some sort, I simply don't know enough to do so yet, but during my searching I also wasn't able to find any similar fakes either! I should add that Stephen's observation on the bulging from the hammer blows is also very evident in person - the metal has bent considerably. I also believe that the "dishing" has happened before the smaller punch notches, as the warping from those overlaps the warping from the dishing. @Steves87 - with regards to the rust and patina, I did clean it on arrival, as there was a light layer of red rust in places, as well as a fair bit of dust. Here's a picture of what it looked like just after I got it from its packaging: It is hard to get it on camera, but the insides of the ana still display some level of rust post cleaning as well. As to the patina, it does seem quite smooth in most pictures, but there is evidence of pitting when you catch the light. It is strange though, almost like it has been struck by many needles: Whilst I was further studying the piece today, I also noticed something completely new - if you turn it upside down and at the right angle, it is possible to see marks from the seppa just above the nakago ana. This was very much a pleasant surprise - and it isn't visible from almost any other angle: Two additional things I've noticed, is that there could be a removed mei on the left of the nakago ana on the bamboo forest(?) side of the tsuba. In addition, there is also what looks like the remains of a chisel mark under the two punches on the top-right side of the nakago ana - I suspect this is contemporary to the dishing, as the dishing all happens on the opposite side, and I suspect something would have been needed on this side to help centre the blade - a chisel mark in this corner therefore makes sense to me, and it has later been punched through: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghoul414 Posted March 9 Author Report Share Posted March 9 (edited) Finally, @Spartancrest, I also had the concern about the overlapping seppa when I was originally thinking of buying it in the auction - so I was a little nervous to try this, but I actually think it looks ok, covering only one ear of the tiger: I should also add that regarding the face of the monk (I didn't know about Sennin Bukan Zenshi before, so thanks for that!), his collar has definitely had silver leaf (edit: not gilt) on at some stage, and I also suspect there could have been a touch on his nose too. I am struggling to find similar tsuba with people done in iron like this though - does anyone have further examples? I have found similar depictions of tigers though: Thanks again all for your comments - I'm learning a lot from this Edited March 9 by Ghoul414 Changed gilt to leaf, my bad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matsunoki Posted March 9 Report Share Posted March 9 4 hours ago, Ghoul414 said: his collar has definitely had silver gilt on at some stage, and I also suspect there could have been a touch on his nose too. Perplexing tsuba this one is! Just to get the terminology right…..silver gilt is gold plating on solid silver. That’s not what we might be seeing on his collar. It could be heavily abraded silver nunome. It would make no sense to have silver on his nose…. is that just the iron showing through the rather strange patina? Also, when I first saw it I thought “cast fake” something about the surface texture so looking inside the nakago ana does that look like a cast granular surface? It certainly doesn’t look like it’s been filed in any way….. But I’m not saying it is wrong …..just somehow doesn’t seem to display that elusive “Japanese essence”. Great subject (I love tigers as well!) but clumsily handled. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matsunoki Posted March 9 Report Share Posted March 9 A couple of iron jobbies from Bonhams which struck a chord. Bonhams is a great search resource. I just put “tsuba tiger” into their search and then selected “past lots” Easy to lose a few hours trawling around in there. Get sidetracked easily! There are some superb tiger tsuba to choose to enjoy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghoul414 Posted March 9 Author Report Share Posted March 9 Hi @Matsunoki, thanks for your thoughts too! 1 hour ago, Matsunoki said: silver gilt is gold plating on solid silver My mistake, I've edited the post now - I meant silver leaf. I have looked up silver nunome though (another new thing learnt!), and that explains the hashing I've seen on the bamboo forest side to help with adhesion, underneath where the silver has been lost. It also explains why the gold has seemingly worn into a criss-cross pattern too: That's definitely not how normal gold leaf wears, is it? 1 hour ago, Matsunoki said: It certainly doesn’t look like it’s been filed in any way Are nakago ana normally filed? I've compared with some of my other tsuba and they all look similar (apart from the patina, and the fact the others I own have suffered a lot of rust damage): Thanks for the tip on Bonhams though, I will definitely spend some time browsing! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spartancrest Posted March 9 Report Share Posted March 9 11 hours ago, Ghoul414 said: It is strange though, almost like it has been struck by many needles: I think the effect is the result of very good hammer work fine ishime, I thought for a moment it might have had silver foil at one time but the area on the omote with the silver nunome shows cut lines underneath as is usual so I can rule that out. I have seen a few guards with the part carved/part plain plate but tracking them down is the difficult part. Like a lot of pieces the more you study it, the more you discover, but there is always a little mystery still behind them. This looks like Shakudo but I can't find any information on it. Small image signed but I doubt we can read it, no information. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1kinko Posted March 9 Report Share Posted March 9 Just a technical note. Silver or gold leaf is not used. It's too thin. The correct term and substance is foil. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghoul414 Posted March 10 Author Report Share Posted March 10 13 hours ago, Spartancrest said: I think the effect is the result of very good hammer work fine ishime Just looked this up too - so to create that effect, the entire flat part of the plate has been repeatedly hammered to create the smooth convex surface? If so, blimey, that must have taken a while! Is this effect ever reproduced in fakes? And similarly, is silver or gold nunome ever used in Chinese reproductions? 13 hours ago, Spartancrest said: but there is always a little mystery still behind them Lol, a bit too much mystery with this one! I'm now personally feeling a lot more confident in the tsuba being at least handmade and having genuinely been fitted to a sword, even if the styling, patina, and age remain open questions... Also had some further thoughts about the reverse - I think it might actually be a waterfall rather than a bamboo forest, with splashes and foliage at the bottom as the water then makes its way down again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matsunoki Posted March 10 Report Share Posted March 10 31 minutes ago, Ghoul414 said: Also had some further thoughts about the reverse - I think it might actually be a waterfall rather than a bamboo forest, with splashes and foliage at the bottom as the water then makes its way down again. Absolutely correct, it is a waterfall but again very basic in its workmanship and artistry. Another small thing I just noticed…..it looks like the Sennin’s hair has sustained quite a lot of wear? The carving appears almost worn smooth on the central highlight? Sign of age/use? Here is the actual link to one of the Bonhams tsuba I compared. The reverse has a similar theme……rockwork, crashing water etc. I haven’t put them next to one another for a really close look but there are strong common features even if the quality is a bit different. I think Bonhams say Murakami school…..might be worth a look? https://www.bonhams....hearly-19th-century/ 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spartancrest Posted March 11 Report Share Posted March 11 15 hours ago, Ghoul414 said: Is this effect ever reproduced in fakes? And similarly, is silver or gold nunome ever used in Chinese reproductions? The cold hammering - no - FAR TOO MUCH WORK FOR A CHEAP FAKE. The nunome - no. The fakes are usually either hand painted or these days they are "printed" with colour, it is rarely coloured correctly and though it might appear as 'gold' I strongly doubt any real gold is used. There are guards that use mercury gilding but they are antique and not to be confused with the modern fakes - mercury gilding probably won't work on some of the low temperature alloys they use on fake guards and it is also highly dangerous to your health. Chinese fakes, colours are all wrong. Paint gone astray on the antennae of this bug. These are very obvious faults, better fakes were made at the end of the Meiji period and into the early years of the twentieth century 'Gold' paint overflow on this common cast "butterflies" namban - most don't bother, too much trouble and often detracts from the finished item. Sorry, getting far 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlorianB Posted March 11 Report Share Posted March 11 The nunome was a point that speaks against a chinese fake. So I was too hasty in my judgement. But I don’t know what to make out of this piece, it looks suspicious in my eyes and there are too many questionable details. Best, Florian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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