Kawachi-no-kami Kunisuke on Ebay

[Chishiki]

Hi John, reply from Colin.

 

'No John,not depressing just one of life's lessons,all things that glisten are not necessarily gold,

and with maturity may come the ability to see through the papered web of allusion.'

 

Unfortunate how he feels he has to use cryptic verse to make points about fake swords, fake papers and ebay sellers. He did once try to put his points across very strongly and forthrightly but because of his 'blunt' approach at the time he got 'evicted' from the message board immediately.

 

BTW this is the same man responsible for the display of swords at the Art Gallery of New South Wales. Not a novice or a stirrer, he simply sees a wrong that he feels should be addressed for the protection of new collectors.

 

Mark

[John A Stuart]

Say hello for me. That is a fine goal, as well. John

[Brian]

Mark,

No-one is taking anything away from what Colin has achieved, or what he promotes. He is doing fine work there in Oz. However, he should perhaps brush up on his forum etiquette. Ignoring the forum rules, making his first 2 posts a complaint and a flood, and not explaining anything, didn't bode well for his forum future.

Remember the post? viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4457

He is welcome to register again anytime, as long as he is prepared to work within regular forum guidelines. Popping in to slander a well known seller that has been discussed endlessly here, is not as constructive as it seems. Neither is outraged flooding. If he has educational matters to share, we are always here and willing to listen. If it revolves purely around warnings about sellers however, then note that no-one on the net already covers this better than the NMB. Seems to me that his entire internet ambitions are to rage against Komonjo and his eBay sales? Frankly, we have had pages about this already, and people who have not done their homework, expect to purchase a Kotetsu on eBay, and have not asked any questions...perhaps they deserve the lesson.

For the record (yet again)..

Komonjo is the consignment sales of Mike Yamaguchi, and are usually swords out of Japan that would likely not pass shinsa if submitted a second time. (Old papers) Mike is a decent seller according to most who have dealt with him, and will tell you all this info if asked. Anyone who is a serious Nihonto enthusiast that frequents forums or eBay should (and likely does) know this info by now. Some of these swords are fine blades with a lot to enjoy. Just not made by the name on them. Not selling for that price either.

I am not condoning the auctions or the way they are sold. It is indeed a problem for newcommers. However we have made the above comments numerous times, and stressed that eBay is not for beginners. You will not buy a huge name for peanuts on eBay. Ask questions before buying. Assume all big names are gimei unless proven otherwise.

 

Regards,

Brian

[Chishiki]

Thanks for the detailed response and I am sure Colin will take up the invite and sign up again.

 

However, he should perhaps brush up on his forum etiquette. Ignoring the forum rules, making his first 2 posts a complaint and a flood, and not explaining anything, didn't bode well for his forum future.

He was named and shamed, Judged, tried and sentenced without the right to reply or defend himself. You are a quick shooter...

 

and people who have not done their homework, expect to purchase a Kotetsu on eBay, and have not asked any questions...perhaps they deserve the lesson.

oh! How is this helpful to some poor soul looking to progress from a few gunto to something he thinks is genuine and worthwhile? The NMB is not accessed by everyone, in particular people whose 1st language is not english. Is the onus really on the collector to deduce that the blade is fake and the paper is suspect? To me that involves a considerable amount of experience. Don't agree with you at all on that point, especially since the seller is a specialist.

 

Komonjo is the consignment sales of Mike Yamaguchi, and are usually swords out of Japan that would likely not pass shinsa if submitted a second time. (Old papers)

Then why is he not upfront about it in his descriptions? He would know the swords are gimei but does not make that clear, why? And more importantly, why show a photo of a paper at all if he knows the sword is gimei and papers are not correct?

 

Anyone who is a serious Nihonto enthusiast that frequents forums or eBay should (and likely does) know this info by now.

It's not the serious collectors we are concerned for, it's the new and inexperienced guys.

 

Some of these swords are fine blades with a lot to enjoy. Just not made by the name on them. Not selling for that price either.

Which ones are fine blades Brian? Can I have some examples, even one example will do? Aside from that, yes, someone may enjoy the sword until they find they have been cherishing a gimei.

Not selling for that price either

Gosh, $3-$10,000 is a lot of money to me for a gimei sword.

 

I am not condoning the auctions or the way they are sold

You seem very quick to leap to his defense and make excuses for him?

Assume all big names are gimei unless proven otherwise.

Well, the presence of papers from the NBTHK may make a buyer think it is genuine, don't you think?

 

(Old papers)

Are they? hmmm, Colin suspects not!

 

Anyway, I look forward to Colin signing up again.

 

Mark

[Brian]

Yep..one of the perks of the job. I can shoot fast whenever. Especially if I think someone crossed the line. And if I am wrong, there is a full money back guarantee. Pity it's a free forum...

 

Beginners have no place buying their first sword off eBay. Many do..and at least usually stay in the budget range. How many beginners do you think spend $10K on their first sword from eBay? What happened to ALL the advice given by every single sword society to see these swords in hand and in person?

I do feel for them, but perhaps a bit of education would prevent this.

 

What makes you think the swords aren't fine blades? Are you of the opinion that swords must be signed by big names and be shoshin to be any good? What happened to enjoying the sword and not the signature? Many forum members own and enjoy gimei blades. It's not the ideal situation, but the sword does not have to be destroyed because it may be gimei.

 

I don't make any excuses for the seller. I am sure he will read this and take offense anyways. I don't condone this type of listing, and personally would do it differently. However my point was (and is) that this is a well known situation, well documented, and well known. A simple question to the seller will probably have this explained. The questions surrounding many old NBTHK papers are well known among the Nihonto community. I believe the advice is to have all of the items resubmitted.

 

How novice does one have to be to assume you are going to find a genuine Kotetsu or Masamune or Shinkai for 1/10th of the value online, and on eBay? Really?

 

As for the hint that the papers are fake or otherwise manufactured..I would be very, very wary before going down that road.

 

As said, Colin is welcome to rejoin us. He would then ideally introduce himself, sign his posts, and perhaps ease into controversy instead of jumping in with both feet first.

 

Regards,

Brian

[drbvac]

I bought a naginata from Komonjo and am pretty sure it is gimei BUT - it was relatively inexpensive, nice size, nice work and whomever tried to imitate the maker did a great job. I can understand the frustration that some may feel that the seller is misrepresenting his goods when in fact he is probably stating it clearly that such and such is signed whatever but not saying it is made by . May be a fine point but like buying the rofex watch - you get what you pay for and whether e-bay or Christies - buyer beware.

[Kajihei]

Then why is he not upfront about it in his descriptions? He would know the swords are gimei but does not make that clear, why? And more importantly, why show a photo of a paper at all if he knows the sword is gimei and papers are not correct?

 

I agree, and he addresses this issue in the "ME" link in his auctions:

 

http://members.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl ... id=komonjo

 

I don't think he would know for certain that a blade is gimei, unless he himself had submitted it for shinsa (and rejected). So I don't think you can expect him to state that it is gimei with any degree of certainty. At the same time, he does make it clear that papers are not to be trusted, and therefore offers no guarantee of authenticity. He had in the past listed several swords saying that he guarantees them to be gimei (or your money back!). I think he was being facetious there, but that did not seem to have affected the final prices. The blades sold for what I thought were reasonable market prices despite the "guarantee." Regardless of what the seller says, the final price is determined by the buyers, and sword buyers on eBay in general appear to be astute and skeptical customers.

 

The responsibility of the sellers to prevent novices from being "deceived" is another matter. That calls into question the practices of the entire advertising industry. Imagine, a listing showing a beautiful, bikini-clad young lady stroking a BIG katana and saying something like "I love men with BIG KOTETSU!" And then it says a papered Kotetsu is available for $10,000. "You and your Kotetsu, no more lonely nights," the listing concludes. Hey, I would be motivated to buy one! As much as I hate to see buyers being deceived, I think the responsibility ultimately rests with the buyer.

 

My two yen's worth.

 

Kaji

[Chishiki]

Brian, thanks for the forum and your detailed reply. It is appreciated.

 

Nothing more to be said by me.

 

Regards

 

Mark

[sanjuro]

Hi Guys

 

I'm new on the forum but this subject fascinated me and was one of the first I read. With all that has been said already I'm left with nothing to add other than all this seems to make a great case for my preference for ubu mumei blades. They dont pretend to be anything that you cant see for yourself. However, You do need to know what you are looking at in the first place, and that applies at least equally to papered blades and gimei blades. False papers and there are definately enough out there, along with false signatures, are only there to mislead the uninformed. Get informed before you get misled!

[Eric H]

Sold for $ 4,050 - 5 Bidders, 13 Bids

Eric