Sleepy Kai Gunto. Kanenami.

[Matsunoki]

Took a chance and bought this without seeing it properly. Can’t help myself sometimes! A very sleepy untouched Kaigunto by Kanenami (thanks again @Nobody). This smith has featured a few times on this Forum and the Mei has caused quite a bit of confusion in the past.  We don’t seem to know much about him.

I think the tsuka had never been off whilst in the UK…rock solid! The fittings have traces of a fine white oxidised powder especially the tsuba and seppa (all numbered 981). The leather saya cover has either shrunk or the owner borrowed one from another sword. It’s done it’s job well. No other stamps or markings.
I wonder if this was a special order sword as the sugata looks a bit unusual for a Gunto?…..more like Kanbun Shinto?  Hardly any sori and heavy taper both in haba and kasane.

No hada visible despite pretty good old polish. Hamon gunome with strong bright nioi guchi. A few yo (?) in the hamon.

So, water or oil quench? No dark peaks in the hamon but no nie visible.

Any info re smith and opinions on sugata and quench (and anything else) greatly appreciated.
All the best. Colin 

Nagasa 65cm

motohaba 3.4 cm

sakihaba 2.1 cm

motokasane 9mm

sakikasane 5mm

sori 4mm

[John C]

1 hour ago, Matsunoki said:

A very sleepy

Colin:

I am still rather new to this...what does that mean?

John C.

[Matsunoki]

6 minutes ago, John C said:

I am still rather new to this...what does that mean?

It means “untouched” ie no one has mucked around with it in recent times. Largely the same condition as it left Japan/arrived in the uk. Hasn’t had the blade gone over with sandpaper etc! Hasn’t had fittings swapped or been rewrapped. Personally, I like to find things in that state. It is history preserved. I will give it a light clean and treat the leather but that’s all it needs.

[John C]

Ah, thanks. I thought maybe it meant a "tired" blade but it's just the opposite.

John C. 

[Matsunoki]

6 minutes ago, John C said:

thought maybe it meant a "tired"

Ah yes, I see how my words could confuse. Never dawned on me that sleepy was very close to tired! It a phrase used in the UK antiques trade a lot…..but maybe not the best phrase for this subject🙂

[Jcstroud]

In my opinion you should try to contact Mr. Malcolm Cox as he has more info on " the Inaba group" than any other person I know. Nice find! Definitely hard to sort them out.

[PNSSHOGUN]

Nice condition and a fine touch to have the leather cover. From the photos provided this does appear to be an oil quenched sword. Of minor note is the tied cord Sarute, you can see more examples here:

 

 

[Matsunoki]

1 hour ago, PNSSHOGUN said:

this does appear to be an oil quenched sword

John, hello again, trust you are well. Thanks for your help.

Would you mind educating me a bit more please? I’m very inexperienced on oil vs water quench. What suggests oil in this case? Lack of nie? ….no visible hada? Style of hamon (ie quite simple)? I could not detect the “dark peaks” that often confirm oil but then I’m not sure exactly what they look like!

Also another (dumb?) question….were complex choji hamon produced using oil?

Thanks again and all the best.  Colin

[Bruce Pennington]

A good discussion with examples and leads to other discussions here:

 

[PNSSHOGUN]

One more thing to note is that particular style of Hamon is quite synonymous with oil quenching. Along with the classic Sanbonsugi, it appears to have been the preferred choice for smiths when oil quenching. Not sure why, beyond the obvious Seki tradition, there could've been testing done on the optimal Hamon pattern for oil quenching. In regards to complex Choji being formed by oil quenching, that may not be achievable due to the lower temperatures and slower cooling when quenching in oil.

[Bazza]

On 5/31/2023 at 4:49 AM, Matsunoki said:

It means “untouched” ie no one has mucked around with it in recent times. Largely the same condition as it left Japan/arrived in the uk. Hasn’t had the blade gone over with sandpaper etc! Hasn’t had fittings swapped or been rewrapped. Personally, I like to find things in that state. It is history preserved. I will give it a light clean and treat the leather but that’s all it needs.

Ffolkes, I too was confused about 'sleepy' and thought it referred to the hamon, which I have seen described this way.  BUT, here in Australia the 'go to' expression for a good find 'out of the woodwork' is sleeper, of which I had another one recently.  Sadly, nothing to write home to Mother about, but a good, clean, mumei piece in Shinguntou koshira.  A nice sleeper from the family of the man who brought it back from his service in the Islands 1939 - 45.

 

BaZZa.

[PNSSHOGUN]

Hi Bazz, you know the routine: where are the pictures!

[Bazza]

HAHAHAHA - John, you stirrer you!!!  Its no world beater for sure, but I'll write it up with photos when I get a chance.  You know that drill, desu ne??

 

BaZZa,

aka Bary "Gunnadoo" Thomas.