Chinese Cannon - Pictures Added

[Kiipu]

Cross-Reference

Chinese Cannon - Pictures Added

 

I thought others might enjoy looking at this GBF thread.

[Bugyotsuji]

How’s this bronze hand gonne pole weapon? They have various names in Chinese and Japanese.

 

It’s covered in hard-to-read inscriptions and dated, but there are warnings of fakes out there, so I’m not holding my breath.

 

The date works out to 1583; the Ming (1573-1620) were indeed still using these at that time. I already have a three-barrel example so grabbed this single barrel. Interestingly it has a small iron block underneath, on the opposite face to the touch hole, possibly to hook onto wall edges and absorb the recoil.

 

[Brian]

Has the look of decent age, no immediate red flags

[Bugyotsuji]

8 minutes ago, Brian said:

Has the look of decent age, no immediate red flags

Sorely tempted to agree with you Brian. Will update as necessary if I find out more.
It had a tag attached to it interpreting the inscriptions, but only half of the tag still remains.

The date

 

[Bugyotsuji]

A couple more fire lance angles. (Some measurements to follow.)

 

Iron block underneath, on opposite side to touch hole.

 

For insertion of pole, receiving end.

[Bugyotsuji]

Apologies to Kiipu (Tom) for thread napping, but this looked like a good thread to keep alive.
Approximate

Total length: 54 cm (21.25 inches)

Barrel length: 46.5 cm (18.25 inches)

Bore: 1:55 cm

Weight: 2.4 kg

The Chinese names are a separate study.
Ishibiya 石火矢 , hiya or hiyari 火槍 these were called in Japan, although the name Ishibiya lingered on and was later used for breech-loading cannon like Furanki-hō. There is an Ishibiya-Chō in Takahashi (old Matsuyama Han territory).

Ishibiya probably refers to the original function of scaring people and horses with bangs, flames and assorted stones. In Okinawa they once used coral balls. I’ve heard of and seen pottery ball examples. Iron was also used for ball until sources of lead became readily available.

[Bugyotsuji]

Single barrel and three-barrel side-by-side.

Poles are temporary props.

 

 

From muzzle end

 

From behind

[Kiipu]

Oddly, I was just reading a few days ago about Japanese knowledge of these before the arrival of the West.  I seem to recall from the 1990s that the Japanese called them something different and Western scholars were uncertain what it was the Japanese were talking about!

[Bugyotsuji]

Ah, thanks for that Tom.
There are some scenes with early pole guns in Miyazaki Hayao’s Princess Mononoke. I suspect Studio Ghibli did some background research before introducing them into the story, although the early squeezing matchlocks shown in other scenes are probably too unlikely.

The photo below shows ‘Ishibiya’ carried by Eboshi Gozen’s troops in Mononoke Hime.

[Kiipu]

If you want, post pictures of the Chinese characters and Trystan can possibly discern something we would overlook.  I have learned the hard way not to ignore him!  FYI, he is my official Chinese translator and occasional consultant on those very old Japanese characters long since dead.

@BANGBANGSAN

 

Old news for most, but see Joseph Needham's book.

Bibliography of Early Japanese Firearms

[Bugyotsuji]

Thank you both!
Posting some more inscriptions! It would be great to figure out what was torn off the tag…

 

The date as above. 萬(万)暦 ‘Banreki’ in Japanese reading.

 

To the left of the date:

 

 

 

 

 

[Bugyotsuji]

Others

 

and

 

as above but some of the characters are soooo faint…

[BANGBANGSAN]

Due to the great age of the engraving, many of the characters are no longer very clear. I can only make out some of the Kanji, and even those may not be entirely accurate.

勝字八
萬曆癸未八月日 1583年8月
勝字小（藤）？五（斤/近）士
匠山守
（藤）？五錢
丸五

About 石火矢 Ishibiya 
  According to 武用辨略 Buyō Benryaku, in 1551 (or 1576 according to 豐薩軍記 Hōsa Gunki), 南蠻人 Nanban  foreigners presented ishibiya to the 大友家 Ōtomo clan, and 大友宗麟 Ōtomo Sōrin named them 國崩 Kunikuzushi. Regarding this event, 武用辨略 Buyō Benryaku gives the following account: In 天文Tenbun 20 (1551), a Portuguese ship anchored in Bungo fired ceremonial salutes toward a church. The tremendous explosions could be heard at Funai Castle. Alarmed, Sōrin and his retainers went to investigate. Thus, eight years after small firearms had been introduced in天文Tenbun 12, cannon arrived in the 大友 Ōtomo domain. Overjoyed,  宗麟 Sōrinnamed them 國崩 Kunikuzushi. Because these guns fired stone projectiles, they were also called 石火矢 Ishibiya, a term that continued to be used into the Edo period. In Sengoku-period records, the term ishibiya is almost always used. For example, descriptions of the ironclad ships built by 織田信長 Oda Nobunaga mention 石火矢三挺  “three ishibiya.” Judging from surviving materials concerning 國崩 Kunikuzushi, the石火矢 Ishibiya  introduced by the 大友家 Ōtomo clan were in fact a type of frankish gun, also called 仏狼機砲 futsurōki-hō in Japanese. This has already been explained in detail in my article “Ancient Japanese Long-Range Weapons” and will not be repeated here.
  As for the 石火矢 Ishibiya imported by the  織田家 Oda clan, historical sources do not clearly record their country of origin. However, during the 安土桃山時期 Azuchi–Momoyama period, Portugal was Japan’s principal trading partner, and 織田信長 Oda Nobunaga himself maintained close relations with Portuguese missionaries such as Luís Fróis. It is therefore likely that most of these weapons were imported from Portugal.

 

[Bugyotsuji]

Thank you very much for looking at the puzzling inscriptions, Trystan. You have given me a couple of ideas.  
It’s always good to have another set of eyes to help zero in.

 

Toyotomi Hideyoshi gathered his guns and his troops and invaded Korea in the 1590s, and they found themselves facing single- and triple-barrel guns much like the ones above, so a bronze gun dated 1583 would not be so strange.

The bore is 1.55 cm, which is a decent size of ball for a battlefield gun.
 

 

[Kiipu]

I asked a Chinese collector to take a look.  He found nothing wrong with Trystan's character identification.  However, he cautioned that Chinese inscriptions were molded in and not inscribed.  He also pointed out that these hand cannons are referred to by the number of barrel rings, in your case 7.

[Bugyotsuji]

Many thanks to Thomas and his valuable consultants. I think we’ve moved this game forward considerably now, almost worthy of a new thread as it would seem to be not Chinese, but Korean, a ‘victory’ gun carrying the character 勝 Katsu/Shō.

Plus we have a photo of one bronze Korean Shō hand gun dated 1592.

 

PS My good friend Ian Bottomley opined that my three-barrel example  (bought from a Chinese dealer) was Korean, so maybe both are in fact Korean.

[Bugyotsuji]

After a little further reflection, it makes more sense for my collection to have a couple of opposing weapons of the type that the Japanese would have faced in Hideyoshi's (mis?)(ad?)ventures over the Tsushima Strait.

[Bugyotsuji]

PS Just found a great video, with unearthed examples of Korean long guns of this type, with very similar inscriptions.