kiyomitsu blade

[loiner1965]

posting on here as i mistakingly posted in the translation section.....my opologies.............................

following from my tang kanji can anyone throw some light on this smith please.....what shall i do with the blade as in polishing etc.....is it worth while or just clean and oil it

[Brian]

Original post: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3998

What country are you in? Might help so that we can direct you to someone who can assist in looking at it and advising further.

Looks to me like it might be a naginata noashi, based on the shape. Depending on what you paid for it (dirt cheap?) it might pay you to invest in a polish. Also depends on what you want out of it at the end. There were many Kiyomitsu's and narrowing it down to one or 2 will depend on state of polish. Looks like it has had some acid or etching treatment, ad only a polisher will be able to really tell you more.

 

If it were me, and I was in one of the larger countries, I might be convinced to look after it and keep it in good condition until a shinsa came around, and then see what they have to say about it. or send it to a polisher and maybe have a window polished to see what turns up. The main thing is not to rush into anything.

 

Brian

[loiner1965]

cheers brian..only paid 135 uk pounds for it as i knew it was genuine by the tang but from his pics the blade looked iffy...told him it could be a naginta as well....pleased with it as its the first little waki since i sold all my swords a few years ago.

i could have it polished by a proffesionel knife maker as he did a great job on a yamato waki for me a few years ago but i do not want to risk it with this just in case,,,, a friend of mine from another forum damaged a genuine OMI DAIJO FUJIWARA TADAHIRA by grinding an edge to it...i will wait and just keep it clean and oiled till something crops up in the future....many many thanks for the advice brian

[loiner1965]

many thanks to brian in pointing me in the right direction concerning my new blade..the mei is definately by kiyomitsu but the shape of the blade points towards a naginata noashi. if you look along the muni you can see it starts with a ridge then flattens out to a rounded edge then towards the kissiki it broadens out quite thickly....this looks like it was made that way rather than an amateur attempt later in life....anyone can throw any light on this.....any kiyomitsu smiths do this delibrately.....just trying to gather as much info before i commit myself further on this blade.....never seen anything like this before

[Brian]

Merged these 2 topics so that we can keep this one blade in one topic.

Still looks to me like a naginata naoshi..or other wise a wakizashi that was made in the style of a slender naginata blade. Maybe the latter, without the hi. Don't think it is all that unusual. Maybe properly called a nagamaki-naoshi (or style) without the naginata hi.

 

Brian

[loiner1965]

many thanks to brian in pointing me in the right direction concerning my new blade..the mei is definately by kiyomitsu but the shape of the blade points towards a naginata noashi. if you look along the muni you can see it starts with a ridge then flattens out to a rounded edge then towards the kissiki it broadens out quite thickly....this looks like it was made that way rather than an amateur attempt later in life....anyone can throw any light on this.....any kiyomitsu smiths do this delibrately.....just trying to gather as much info before i commit myself further on this blade.....never seen anything like this before

sent it off to mr bolton a well known respected uk polisher for his advice etc...will keep you all updated good or bad news etc

[shan]

Hi Steve,

There is always a risk when getting a sword polished.more so with some than others.

I would have gone to Les stewart IMHO. Tony Norman is the other good toshogi but he is semi retired and is very choosy about his commisions.(so i am told).

 

The thickening at the Kissaki is remeniscant of the Tanto shape Osoraku zukuri: æらã造り a form in which the yokote is near or at about the middle of the blade. Osore æã‚Œ means fear or dread, and this is an imposing shape.

see attached Tanto of mine,that is with Les Stewart,he will restore the Yokote.This design was a yoroi doshi.

Masayuki AKA Kiyomaro liked this style of Tanto and his version was much admired.Mine is like his but i think his work is vastly superior to my blade.

 

 

Yours if it thickens at the tip like mine( motokasane 6mm -sakikasane 9.5mm)is most likely the same idea on a longer blade,what you will then have is a slashing and armour piercing blade. can`t see all of your blade though so its a "stab in the dark" (excuse the pun)

regards shan

[loiner1965]

Hi Steve,

There is always a risk when getting a sword polished.more so with some than others.

I would have gone to Les stewart IMHO. Tony Norman is the other good toshogi but he is semi retired and is very choosy about his commisions.(so i am told).

 

The thickening at the Kissaki is remeniscant of the Tanto shape Osoraku zukuri: æらã造り a form in which the yokote is near or at about the middle of the blade. Osore æã‚Œ means fear or dread, and this is an imposing shape.

see attached Tanto of mine,that is with Les Stewart,he will restore the Yokote.This design was a yoroi doshi.

Masayuki AKA Kiyomaro liked this style of Tanto and his version was much admired.Mine is like his but i think his work is vastly superior to my blade.

[attachment=1]Yoroi Doshi Both sides.jpg[/attachment]

[attachment=0]Yoroi Doshi Both sides.jpg[/attachment]

Yours if it thickens at the tip like mine( motokasane 6mm -sakikasane 9.5mm)is most likely the same idea on a longer blade,what you will then have is a slashing and armour piercing blade. can`t see all of your blade though so its a "stab in the dark" (excuse the pun)

regards shan

thank you shan for your interesting info which i tend to agree about the armour piecing side..like everything polishing can be risky but i will never know anything about the blade or which kiyomitsu smith it is unless every detail is known...a forum colleauge of mine has some knowledgble friends in Japan and when he is over there he will inquire some more so when mr bolton can tell me more then i can pass it on

[Guido]

Osore æã‚Œ means fear or dread, and this is an imposing shape.

Osoraku ãŠãらã, as the Horimono on the prototype by Shimada Sukemune says, means "probably". It's said that he meant it as kind of a joke, "this is probably the only blade made in this shape". The original Osoraku was also quite short and thin; later smiths, like Kotetsu or Kiyomaro, copied the general shape but often in a larger scale.

[shan]

Thanks Guido,for the info

I have learnt something more.

I had heard something of this or read it somewhere.

Still its a rare shaped item.

regards

shan

[Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini]

The original Osoraku was also quite short and thin; later smiths, copied the general shape but often in a larger scale.

 

Still its a rare shaped item.

 

Indeed.

 

 

[shan]

thats a Nice blade Carlo,

That`s encouraged me to go for a sashikomi polish to show up the smiths intentions as opposed to the polishers as mine has a choji Gunome hamon which will look great,If the hamon structure will support a sashikomi polish.

My question now is to yokote or not to yokote as i have seen both and i am not sure what i prefer.

regards

shan

[Brian]

A good polisher will be able to tell you what belongs there, and not allow you to choose yourself.

It isn't an optional thing. It as either forged to be there, or not. I do suggest maybe taking it with to the shinsa and see if one of the panel would be prepared to advise you.

 

Brian

[loiner1965]

that is one beautiful but deadly looking blade.............

[Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini]

thats a Nice blade Carlo,

 

Quiet good, but not mine. :|

 

That`s encouraged me to go for a sashikomi polish to show up the smiths intentions as opposed to the polishers

 

You were about to say "to the polisher's intentions" ?

IMHO Brian's advice is a sound one for the choice of polish type too.

Trust your Togishi about Hadori/Sashikomi to decide which one is better for the blade (I'm assuming he's skilled enough

with both).

[shan]

Hi Carlo,

I thought Brian was talking about the Yokote?But maybe i was wrong.

You are Carlo, Quite right that the polisher should advise on whether a blade can support one polish style or the other,But if the answer is Yes to hadori and sashikomi,then isn`t that then the decision of the owner as to which he would prefer?

I would hate to have a blade that had a hamon that supported sashikomi but be forced into a hadori. Hadori is the new kid on the block,the other was good enough until it appeared. :D

Sometimes Hadori will work with a hamon and enhance certain features and sometimes it will hide aspects of the activity and disguise the intention and skill of the smith.

But i digress,this is anothers Post and i will bet the Hadori versus sashikomi debate has been and gone a long time ago.My vote is for the smiths intentions.

regards

Shan

[Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini]

I thought Brian was talking about the Yokote?

 

for the choice of polish type too.

 

Yes, of course it was. Maybe this is a situation in which my signature fully shows its meaning.

[Brian]

Carlo,

Yes, I got your intentions perfectly. Saying that not only the yokote, but the type of polish should be guided by the togishi, and I agree.

As for sashikomi vs hadori, there are excellent articles out there. Our own John Bowhay wrote this one on Rich S's site: http://www.geocities.com/alchemyst/hadori.htm and then Guido also has a great one that is at: http://www.bushidojapaneseswords.com/po ... eaning.pdf

Worth a read before you decide.

 

Brian

[Guido]

Maybe this is a situation in which my signature fully shows its meaning.

Carlo, you are the total opposite of this guy. :D

[Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini]

:D

 

"She sells sea shells". Studied it learning about Mary Annings' fossils finding.

[kusunokimasahige]

ten ten ten ten ten ten ten ten...

 

http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=MEDqUxIGE ... re=related

 

 

KM

[Brian]

Guys,

Take it easy with the youtube/video posts, especially if off topic. Not everyone even has the bandwidth to view them, which makes it hard to moderate them or view them. On topic is fine, but if I think they are just comical or off-topic, I'm going to remove them.

 

Brian

[Stephen]

THANK YOU!!!