Hello Everybody ! Tsubas specialist needed please.

[vito2a]

First i want to salute everybody as i'm new to this forum !

So "Hello to you all dear nihonto addicts" .

 

Second) Well as so many others before i own Tsubas but don't know a lot about "them",

so it would be kind of you all to share your knowledge.

The first one looks very simple it was mounted on a very "bad" wakizashi the diameter

is 7,5 cm and the width 5 mm. The second one is 7,5 x 7 cm with a 4 mm width.

Having read a little bit on the subject the second one could be from the eigteenth century

(remember am a newbie). Pictures are attached, any info would be really appreciated

 

Many thanks.

 

J.L.M.

"The Guy with the broken English"

[Bungo]

the first 2 pics show a run of the mill " nara-ish " tsuba in poor condition.......

the last one is quite interesting, you should keep that one as you build up your collection.

 

milt

[vito2a]

Well Thanks for the fast answer ! The "simple looking one" is interesting ?! Why, is it a quite unusual design ?

Any details ? What coud be the period ? What could be the school *** I don't want to be rude, it's just that

i'm interested in your opinion.

Do you think i can ameliorate/enhance the condition of the first one (by myself) ? As a pure neophyte i like it pretty

much even rusty ... i can see nice branches over a mountain rock - the peasant i don't like so much.

Regards.

J.L.M

[Bungo]

that simple looking one is.............

 

A freaking " Yagyu " design. Quite valuable if you get it pass shinsa.

 

I leave that to other " specialist " on this board to decide if it's " shoshin ". I wouldn't sell it if I were you ( unless to me, hahahhaha ). Keep it as a foundation of your budding collection for a while.

 

p.s. , the pictorial one is quite bad , I could be totally wrong, of course

milt

[vito2a]

Thanks for the advices and details.

I add more pictures.

In a following post = tsuba itself with an "enhanced" pic of the visible "mei".

Regards.

 

JLM.

P.S. : hope this post is interesting for somebody else in here .

[Brian]

JLM,

Please sign each post with a first name for convenience. I would also ask you to resize each pic and if there are very many, please use an external host if possible. I had to edit each pic here as the originals are huge and the filesize is way too big. Please re-upload the pic of the signature in a smaller size. Let's keep this thread for tosogu and if you need info on the blade you can post in the Nihonto section.

 

Can you provide some measurements on that geometric shaped tsuba?

 

Thanks,

Brian

[Bungo]

shinto sword ?

fits well with the shinto era tsuba...hopefully Yagyu.

Come on, all you tsuba dudes out there, what do you think ?

Design is Yagyu ( check out that European Sword colllection book with section on Yagyu tsuba ), I may miss out the details sometimes, but how about the " rim " ? May be Shoami copy ( doubt it ) ?

 

I am putting my bet on it being Yagyu when shinsa-ed by NBTHK in Japan.

 

milt

[vito2a]

Hello Mr Robinson,

 

1) so i'll resize down the missing pics according to what you did (many thanks for your time ...), i have no external host right now so if you don't mind "well i just can add less pictures ..." (not so huge i promise in fact i thought it could be useful for a better vision of the "beast" and as definition over 1200 pixels were automaticcally bannished ...).

2) Concerning the blade it was just to maybe help the "diagnostic" i didn't ask for any infos (but i appreciate .

3) Measurements :

 

- The outside circle diameter is : 74 mm x 5 mm

- The "square/octogon" inside : 46 x 46 x 5 mm

with 10 mm for the small sides of the octogon and 31 mm for the bigger ones

- The "little squared pieces" between the circle and the octogon are 5 x 5 x 3 mm (thickness)

- The "hole" inside (sending stones at people is not allowed !) is 27 x 9 mm.

 

Best regards.

 

Jean-Luc Manta

[Brian]

Thank you Jean-Luc. Making the pics 800 px or less wide just allows them to show directly instead of converting to a link. In my experience, this gets more views as a lot of people don't click links to view. Pics can indeed be bigger, but I think more views is preferable to huge pics that don't get seen

The size of the tsuba will help the "tsuba guys" on this one with their comments. It needs work (best left to a professional) but let's see what the others say before deciding on any action.

 

Regards,

Brian

[Bungo]

You can try your cleaning skill by using ivory chip on that Nara-ish tsuba, oil very lightly to check on condition and patina.

I wouldn't touch the " Yagyu -design " tsuba unless you know what you are doing, Capt. Picard.

 

 

Milt

[vito2a]

Geometric Tsuba's Adventure Vol. 2 (suite) >>>

 

Hello Tsuba People,

I attached smaller pics (2 only) the first one showing the tsuba itself and the other one the mei,

but i have questions :

- Upper in the topic, Milt said that the first tsuba was in poor condition but well is

the Geometric one in a better shape ?

- What could be the birthdate of this Tsuba ?

- Are these geometric design usual ?

- Do i have to submit the Mei picture someplace else in order to have help "translating" it

- Shinsa means authentification i guess, have you any idea of the price of this kind of evaluation

knowing that Rockfeller is not my cousin ?

- Do you think the shinto blade pictures would be of interest in the Nihonto area

knowing that this blade is heavily damaged ?

 

Regards.

 

Jean-Luc Manta

 

PS : Maybe if my questions are senseless / out of scope etc ... the best is not to answer,

maybe but i'd like you to believe that i really appreciate your help :m y best book on Tsubas

being written in Polish language that i cant read. I know there's an awful lot of infos in english but

i couldn't find a picture showing this geometric pattern.

[Bungo]

geez, Capt. Picard, mumei becomes signed............ did you just inscript that name there ?

I am not sure Yagyu tsuba are typically signed.............. I'll leave that to the " specialist ", anyway the design is Yagyu as documented in the book, but yours may be a copy of that design.

As I say, need Shinsa, probably cost you 400+

 

milt

[Martin]

Hi Jean-Luc,

 

well here is the piece Milt is talking about I guess (taken from Selected Fine Japanese Swords from European NBTHK Collections).

I would also say this could very well be a Yagyu design, but the signature (although I can´t read it) makes me a little hesitating.

Yagyu Tsuba are unsigned in most cases and they often exhibit a kind of sanded surface (which is quite difficult to make out due to the condition of this piece though...).

 

Cheers,

[vito2a]

Special answer to Mister Milt, (bold)

 

Who's "Capt. Picard" ? A friend of yours ?

"Did you just inscript .. blabla joke"

>>> Well i'd glad to be abble to write Japanese characters this way !

( and i mean it !) but as you said, the first pic of that tsuba was "improvable" so with my little fingers and mr Olympus we did our best

to provide a better one ... just a matter of good or bad lightin'

Are this Tsuba / Mei other piece of fitting faked/copy etc i sure don't know !!! What i know is that if cheating there is, it's an ancient one.

 

I would be glad to have opinions or answer around provided informations

if this forum is the right place. What's the purpose of this forum ? I don't ask any money Mr Milt, it may be possible to talk/learn a little bit about tsubas without prior sending it to Japan ! Am i wrong ?

 

Regards.

Jean-Luc Manta

 

P.S. : i hope i made clear i'm not interrested in selling something here !

[Bungo]

" - Shinsa means authentification i guess, have you any idea of the price of this kind of evaluation

knowing that Rockfeller is not my cousin ? "

 

told you already....... about 400 bucks to Japan NBTHK shinsa, give or take 100 .

" What's the purpose of this forum ? I don't ask any money Mr Milt "

 

you can't afford my service since you are not related to Rockie

 

 

I wish I personally know Capt. Picard, more inclines towards Torres myself.

Yes, it's a joke since you are jean Luc

p.s. what a drag, have to explain a joke !!

milt

[Ed]

Geez Milt, you call that an explanation.

 

Jean-Luc,

Jean-Luc Picard was the Captain of the USS Enterprise on the TV show Star Trek.

 

Shinsa: The sword museum in Tokyo, the NBTHK, offers a service called "shinsa" where you can send your tsuba to have the "experts" determine the school, maker, or determine whether a signature (mei) is authentic or not. The fee for this service total runs approx. $300 USD.

 

Yagyu was a school of Japanese swordsmanship. They designed their own tsuba and these have become know as Yagyu tsuba. It is highly unlikely that your tsuba is an original Yagyu tsuba, however it may have been made with this design as a reference. This does not mean your tsuba is a cheat or fake, just that it is not an original "Yagyu"

 

Your tsuba does need to be cleaned, but I doubt that it is worth professional restoration. Following is a link on how to clean iron tsuba, if you must. Please note it is very time consuming and labor intensive. You would most likely be better off leaving it as is.

http://home.earthlink.net/%7Ejggilbert/Cleaning.htm

[Bungo]

Ed,

Star Trek, the Next generation.

 

Anyone like me regarding Torres the fair sex Klingon ?

 

After seeing the mei, I also come to the conclusion it's not Yagyu but still a decent, good honest tsuba.

How come all the new guys get to discover " good " stuffs ?

p.s. as I suggested, Jean Luc, try your hands on the cheapie first, when feel a bit more comfortable, you can lightly clean the good one ( but don't over do it, you don't have to remove that last rust speck !! )

 

Milt

[Ted Tenold]

Milt: Defining "lost in translation", one thread at a time.

 

Jean-Luc, just my own advice as you are new person to this, don't attempt to restore or repair anything until you gain some more experience. When you are unable to tell the difference between good quality pieces and low quality, then it is impossible to judge what you could try repairing, and what to leave to professionals. With study and learning over time, you will become better acquainted with the differences.

[vito2a]

Answer to MILT "the funny"

 

Well Jokes are very OK to me especially when i don't have to cruise the web in order to understand ^^ as i'm just a dumb Frenchie (Land of delicious stinky cheese) i don't know a **** (censured) about STORETRICKS nope erffff made a mistake there "STARTREK" because : it's not part of our cultural background (i'm a liar : i heard of Spock and Captain Kirk).

 

About your service that i can't afford ... well you made a point

 

And what about my other questions ? Any idea ?

- What could be the birthdate of this Tsuba ?

- Are these geometric design usual ?

- Do i have to submit the Mei picture someplace else in this forum in order to have help "translating" it ?

 

Regards,

Jean-Luc Manta.

 

PS : :| what a drag being a newbie seeking answers and being under the obligation to read "jokes" by Startrek lovers *** Any kind of jokes around French people are welcome (coming from Milt or the community especially if "non-nihonto related).

[vito2a]

Hello everybody,

 

Answer to "where the hell does it come from ?"

When i was a teenager i had this Great-uncle of mine in the tradition, the guy was wealthy and used to be curious of everything from Fishing to Photography, fine arts to Sciences etc. The guy was a great collector and as a kid i often did envy (i admit) some of the nice stuff he had. He gave me 3 wakisashi and a katana (all of them in a terrible condition !) but anyway i pay him a little "hommage" there. A regret i will keep is not being allowed to touch / look at a magnificient one (katana) that was "throning" in the living room 'cause i think that it was "the real thing". The other ones were in a cave "en vrac".

So i have yet two or three pieces/fittings to show including a tsuba.

 

One question ? If the Geometrical Tsuba doesn't merit a professional cleaning ... would you send it to Japan ?

 

Thanks, to everybody there i'm learning a lot.

Regards.

 

Lean-Luc Manta

 

 

PS : i'll follow wise advices and won't clean the Tsubas ...

[vito2a]

Some more pics for all Rust lovers,

these are from a katana.

Any comments welcome.

 

Jean-Luc Manta

[vito2a]

One more pic ("for the road"),

comes from a wakizashi.

 

Jean-Luc Manta

[Bungo]

Leunant Picard ( as addressed to by Q ),

If you use ivory chip or bone to scrap at the red active rust, most likely you won't hurt the tsuba ( but keep off the plugs of the koz/kogai holes ), use soap and toothbrush to wash off the dirts, then apply very lightly chogi oil to check progress, you'll be surprise how much better that " Yagyu style " tsuba will look.

You can always wait for NTHK oversea shinsa , they are a bit " cheaper " than sending it back to NBTHK. ( cost 200+ if pass )

 

p.s. Do not ask me to explain Q

 

Milt ( the space cadet )

[vito2a]

Hi Milt,

Leunant Pick'ad' speaking :

well thanks, i followed your advice/technique with the "nara-ish" Tsuba,

he looks a lot better now (less less rusty ) i won't post

any picture cause the piece is still ordinary but it revealed copper inlays etc

that were invisible before

 

Hi everybody !

It would be kind if somebody acquainted with Japanese language could to take

a look at the Mei on the Yagu-ish Tsuba and share is knowledge ...

(this request is in "Translation assistance" but without any success :"( ).

 

Regards,

Jean-Luc Manta.

[Nobody]

Hi everybody !

It would be kind if somebody acquainted with Japanese language could to take

a look at the Mei on the Yagu-ish Tsuba and share is knowledge ...

(this request is in "Translation assistance" but without any success :"( ).

Maybe Fukui Jizaemon.

Refer to my response: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=3973&p=29954&hilit=jizaemon#p29954