Gunto: Late war or Ersatz?

[m4l700]

Hi everyone,

 

I recently picked up this 'gunto' looking blade. However i'm still trying to find out what it is, or what it is meant to be.

 

According to my research I think it might be a (very?)late war or ersatz/island sword? Based on Fuller & Gregory's book on page 42 it might be a late war as described there with plain iron hilt, menuki and fittings. But on the other hand i'm not sure if the quality is what the IJA would use, but it has a gunto style tsuba and a IJA style leather covered combat saya.

 

Another interesting part are the two mekugi holes in the nakago and tsuka.. Aint this quite unusual if the blade is a late war production?

 

There are no stamps or makings what so ever.

 

What do you think?

 

Thanks!

 

 

[PNSSHOGUN]

You may be right, it's certainly not of Japanese origin but it has some interesting patina and features not really seen on the chinese fakes. This is a real "Twilight Zone" of WW2 military swords, differentiating an island sword from a chinese fake is pretty tough. Unless they have that same katakana mei seen in the reference books it's anyone's guess.

[tbonesullivan]

The leather cover on the scabbard is what interests me the most. I don't know if there is even a way to fake the age deterioration of leather.  I've seen a lot of old leather from WWII, WWI, and earlier. Nothing in that leather looks out of line for being at least 70 years old, especially the dry rot where the surface is flaking off.

[David Flynn]

I think it's from Indonesia.

[m4l700]

Hi John, David,

 

Thank you. With the sword in hand and under closer inspection I don't feel like it could be a fake, but thats the point of a fake I guess I've seen some other fakes but it seems that this one has a bit more quality then those. Hard to explain.

 

Having our Dutch-Indonesian history in mind, it is an interesting thought that it might be Indonesian, or even PETA?

 

However, the tip/bottom part of the saya is rotten, eaten away and/or broken and someone treated it with some material to stop the worms. It's a shame that the tip sticks out, but it is what it is.

 

 

[Bruce Pennington]

I would check with Neil, IJASWORDS. He's got a great collection of the late-war gunto.

 

My un-expert view is: NOT fake. Occupied forces likely. The crooked shinogi (that line that runs down the nakago) is a sure sign of non-Japanese work. The tsuba of occupied forces swords usually attempt to integrate some IJA style, but are always off (maybe intentionally. I doubt the IJA would allow "allies" to exactly copy thier military spec items) but with clear quality compared to the icky stuff you see on fakes.

[PNSSHOGUN]

Was this acquired locally, David?

[David Flynn]

I have seen a few of these swords.  Brought back from the surrenders in Indonesia.   Sukano was allied with the Japanese through their occupation. The Japanese in turn, trained Sukanos troops.  Part of this, was to emulate the Japanese and so these swords came about.

[IJASWORDS]

I am a bit late jumping in here , but I am in agreement with David Flynn. This sword was made to carry and use, unlike others that were made as souvenirs . 

[m4l700]

Was this acquired locally, David?

 

Hi John, This sword was bought at a local yard/estate sale. It came with items from someone who passed away that they put on sale.

 

Thanks everyone, really interesting. But does this mean that it is probably made during the (late)war? Overall an interesting militaria piece for the collection.

[PNSSHOGUN]

Another tick for an island made sword from one of the former Dutch colonies in that case.