Small Tanto - trouble with First Character

[tbonesullivan]

I'm certain that the second kanji is "mitsu" 光,  but the first one is eluding me. I even went through some lists of smiths to see if something looked good, but the closest I could find was 忠 "Tada" , but the lower left portion of the character does not look right. Maybe 武 "Take"?  or 定 "Sada"?

 

Also, the blade is quite narrow, and does not have any Shinogi-ji, just a ji going right into an Ihori type mune. Is there a name for this shape? edge length is 22cm.

[Tom Darling]

Sadamitsu. Appears to be (thick)  armour piercing tanto?  IMOH

 

Tom D.

[ROKUJURO]

David,

this SUGATA is called HIRA-ZUKURI. It is a standard form for TANTO and also often seen in KO-WAKIZASHI.

SADAMITSU seems to fit.

[tbonesullivan]

David,

 

this SUGATA is called HIRA-ZUKURI. It is a standard form for TANTO and also often seen in KO-WAKIZASHI.

 

SADAMITSU seems to fit.

Thanks! I've gotta read up more on the different Sugata. Having dealt almost entirely with the standard Shinogi Zukuri shaped Shin-Gunto, Gendaito, and some slightly older blades. Now I need to get some books so I can look up which Sadamitsu it is. The only online reference I found is a 15th century maker, though they are known for Suguha hamon patterns. The tanto has an omaru Boshi, which is very nice looking.

 

The Hamon on the blade is pretty much straight, but there is some nice Hada, and the polish is nice. Definitely looks like something made to go right through armor, kind of like the Persian Pesh-kabz dagger.

[Bazza]

Far too long to be an armour piercer.  More like a sunnobi tanto.  The cobwebs in my brain are rustling and seem to be saying Koto...

 

BaZZa.

[tbonesullivan]

Far too long to be an armour piercer.  More like a sunnobi tanto.  The cobwebs in my brain are rustling and seem to be saying Koto...

 

BaZZa.

 

Is there a typical length range for armor piercing tanto? I 22cm/ 8 3/4inches seems pretty short.

 

Well, I found a few references to Sadamitsu, and most are Koto. This one seems possible: https://nihontoclub.com/smiths/SAD78  Sesko N-Z page 92 shows a few candidates, including the one from nihonto club. With a two character mei I don't know if I'll get any closer than that.

[ROKUJURO]

David,

the length of your TANTO (22 cm) is quite right for a YOROI-DOSHI, but those are quite hefty and can have a thickness between 9 and 12 mm (at the MUNE). A SUNNOBI TANTO is slightly longer (about 1 SUN) than 1 SHAKU, if I am not mistaken.  

[tbonesullivan]

David,

 

the length of your TANTO (22 cm) is quite right for a YOROI-DOSHI, but those are quite hefty and can have a thickness between 9 and 12 mm (at the MUNE). A SUNNOBI TANTO is slightly longer (about 1 SUN) than 1 SHAKU, if I am not mistaken.  

This one is just about 8mm at the HIBAKI, and does down to about 7mm half way down the blade. It's definitely quite solid.

[ROKUJURO]

David,

so then it might indeed have started its life as a YOROI-DOSHI, now a bit polished down. The whole appearance is more that of a thrusting weapon and not so much of a cutting one, at least in my eyes..

[tbonesullivan]

David,

 

so then it might indeed have started its life as a YOROI-DOSHI, now a bit polished down. The whole appearance is more that of a thrusting weapon and not so much of a cutting one, at least in my eyes.

 

Definitely. I don't see it being very good for cutting with the very large edge angle. It's almost diamond shaped.

[Ed]

Not to imply you can't read a tape measure but in the photo your tanto appears longer than 22cm (8.66"), guess it is the photo.

 

Correct me if  am wrong, but I have never read where there was an absolute set criteria for the length on the yoroidoshi.  I understand that most were in the 20-22cm range, but I have seen several which were considerably longer and much too thick to be Sunnobi Tanto.  The Sunnobi Tanto of the Nambokucho period typically had a nagasa of 30-43cm, but with thin kasane.

 

Case in point: With a nearly 0.5" or 1.27cm Kasane, this Tanto with a nagasa of 12.25" (31.115cm) can only be a Yoroidoshi.  Long enough to penetrate armor, ribs and lungs.

http://yakiba.com/Tanto_Yoroidoshi_Mumei.htm

[tbonesullivan]

Not to imply you can't read a tape measure but in the photo your tanto appears longer than 22cm (8.66"), guess it is the photo.

The edge is definitely 22cm. In total the blade is only about 18mm wide at the habaki, so it looks bigger than it is.  I snapped another picture. Also got a good close up of the boshi hamon.

[Ed]

I wasn't doubting you, just commenting that it looked longer. 

[Tom Darling]

Your Sadamitsu Armour piercing tanto is excellent. It reminds me of one that is illustrated in John Yamoto, The samurai Sword 1971 edition , plate 23  with kozuka top. Which was also a armour pierce tanto, made around 1440. I lost oshigata of maker. Cheers.

 

 

Tom D.

[Bazza]

Not to imply you can't read a tape measure but in the photo your tanto appears longer than 22cm (8.66"), guess it is the photo.

 

Correct me if  am wrong, but I have never read where there was an absolute set criteria for the length on the yoroidoshi.  I understand that most were in the 20-22cm range, but I have seen several which were considerably longer and much too thick to be Sunnobi Tanto.  The Sunnobi Tanto of the Nambokucho period typically had a nagasa of 30-43cm, but with thin kasane.

 

Case in point: With a nearly 0.5" or 1.27cm Kasane, this Tanto with a nagasa of 12.25" (31.115cm) can only be a Yoroidoshi.  Long enough to penetrate armor, ribs and lungs.

http://yakiba.com/Tanto_Yoroidoshi_Mumei.htm

> Not to imply you can't read a tape measure but in the photo your tanto appears longer than 22cm (8.66"), guess it is the photo.

That's exactly the impression I got Ed.  I guess its a matter of proportion.  In the photo David's tanto looked long and skinny to my eye.

 

> ... but I have seen several which were considerably longer and much too thick to be Sunnobi Tanto.

I'm reminded now of such a tanto I saw decades ago, long and very thick.  It was a Mino blade and I cannot now recall the smith.  Yes, it was BIG...  Good to hear the discussion and verifying the the blade as a yoroi doshi.

 

BaZZa.

[Tom Darling]

Thank you, thank you all.  I knew it all along!  Great yoroi doshi.  Peace.

 

 

Tom D..