First Nihonto

[speaktree]

I have been learning from books and online resources for a while now and while I own a few custom replicas as I do iaido, however I would really like to own a genuine nihonto to study as a first piece for my collection. I don't have much money to put into my first purchase and to be honest I am a bit scared to put such a large amount of money into my first piece! So I was wondering if anyone has a blade in bad condition (possibly a kizu, rusted, over polished) that I can purchase off them for about $200 - $300? I am too sceptical of e-bay to try buying anything from there at the moment, so I thought this would be a better place to enquire?

[Stephen]

Hello ? please sign off with your name per signup rules

 

welcome to the board...you know that for that price your not going to get any Nihonto, use it for books, read a lot of the Kantei post here we have some of the best teachers you'll find on the net when it comes to nihonto, the typical newbie question is where can I get the cheapest true nihonto so don't be surprised when you don't get a quick answer. I think after reading and some studying you'll start with the lower end sword around 1500 to 2000 and be very happy. place adds in you local newspaper wanted Japanese items from WW 11 etc. Ebay can turn up a sword but you have to know what your looking at...PM me with a link and ill be glad to help. page after page here of the same thing your asking take some time to browse, the right sword will come at the right time if you show the Nihonto gods some respect.

[speaktree]

Thank you for your reply.

Firstly I would like to apologise for not signing off properly, I usually add it to my signature.

 

One should not automatically assume that someone is a newbie, just because its their first post on this specific forum. I have been studying books for quite a while and read through a lot of resources on the net, also asking knowledgeable people for advice where I was uncertain. I have just reached a point where I would like to own at least one nihonto. I have been active on some other forums for a while, the main reason I joined this one as well was because its South African based (well as much as anything can be based in a country on the net) and it seems like there are some knowledgeable collectors with sizable collections here.

 

One of the members on this forum has sent me a helpful email however that is much appreciated! Thanks :D

 

Casper Coertze

[Guest reinhard]

So I was wondering if anyone has a blade in bad condition (possibly a kizu, rusted, over polished) that I can purchase

 

Since you're from the martial art section, it seems you are trying to touch a myth (THE samurai sword) and hold it in your own hands; but buying like that will just cost you money without getting you near to it and the thrill will soon be gone.

From what I heard SA is not exactly an easy place to learn about Japanese swords, but if you can make it: Find people or places where you can see genuine examples in pristine condition. Once you have seen swords like that, you will probably have the patience to wait until your wallet and your understanding have grown some more. If you are satisfied with just holding a myth in your hands (or what you are taking for it), you can easily find a cheap piece that suits these purposes anywhere online. It's up to you.

 

reinhard

[Brian]

Hi Casper,

 

Nice to have another SA'frican on board with an interest. Please don't mistake the replies for trying to discourage you. It is just that, as a forum dedicated to the subject, we have a responsibility to give advice that is correct and suitable for everyone else reading it, and emphasizes the correct route to follow. I do understand that many buying their first sword will look for a cheaper piece, but it is only logical that the standard advice is to save up, buy books, look at good swords, and then buy something better. It is just the logical and proper advice to give. If you know that, have thought about it, maybe done some of that, and then decided you still want to purchase a cheap item at first, at least we did the responsible thing and we can proceed from there. So please don't see it as negative advice

What I would advise is to get hold of me via email, and I will send you details of the new Jhb based South African Japanese Sword Society that a small group of us have just started. There you will be able to see some swords and get some hands-on experience.

We can also see what is available here or elsewhere that you can pick up for a good deal.

 

Regards,

Brian

[mfarrar]

I think you will struggle to find something with that budget. You might be able to find a nice Kogatana in polish for a little more, which would be a good place to start. Atleast then you will be able to study hamon/hada, rather than buying a rusted wak that would be uneconomical to polish and will never learn from it.

 

Mark

[Bungo]

" If you are satisfied with just holding a myth in your hands (or what you are taking for it), you can easily find a cheap piece that suits these purposes anywhere online. It's up to you.

 

reinhard "

 

This could turn out to be " funny " but we are giving advice on a serious issue so I stop......

 

Yes, why not wait a little longer and save up for a polished wakazashi ? Most beginners start with a wak ( polished one allows you to study most of the features mentioned in books ) and then move on to " better " swords by selling the first to another beginner. This is by no means " cheating " the next " newby ", treat it more like selling a used book when you are done reading.

p.s. a slightly out of polished or in " old " polish wak costs about 500+ and up ( i think )

milt

[speaktree]

Sorry if I came over a bit defensive in my post. I realise that most of you have already learned from mistakes that I might still make if I buy recklessly. The price range I mentioned might be little on the low side, its not really that fixed. I just wanted to know what an entry level wakizashi would be like and was wondering if someone had some that would be a good starter blade. BTW I was under the impression that nihonto refers to katana, wakizashi and tanto, so when I said that I didn't actually specifically want to refer to katana. I have seen some people acquire some decent wakizashi around the $300 mark before so thats one of the reasons I used it as a price point. I am not a serious collector, but more of a practitioner, so while I have some production blades that I use for iai, I basically just want a blade that can be called Japanese in the sense that it comes from Japan as opposed to the chinese made replicas. So in a sense you have a point with the whole 'myth' idea. I have seen and held some nihonto of various qualities, so I know what to expect generally, its not like I'm one of the "it can cut through a gunbarrel" kind of know-it-alls. But a real nihonto regardless of quality still shames most production katana when it comes to handling, weight distribution, geometry etc... So you get the basic picture.

 

Also I wanted to know what is the more comprehensive books you'd recommend?

 

C. Coertze

[Guest reinhard]

BTW I was under the impression that nihonto refers to katana, wakizashi and tanto, so when I said that I didn't actually specifically want to refer to katana. I have seen some people acquire some decent wakizashi around the $300 mark before so thats one of the reasons I used it as a price point.

 

Quality and price of Japanese blades are not measured by their size. A wakizashi by Nanki Shigekuni in shirasaya can be worth 80'000$, whereas you can find a katana in bad condition with a poor koshirae, forged by a forgotten, untalented smith for 800$. It's about art vs. myth.

I'm sure Brian will give you the proper informations.

 

reinhard

[Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini]

Also I wanted to know what is the more comprehensive books you'd recommend?

 

From the homepage links :

 

http://www.nihontokanjipages.com/reading.html

 

Nagayama's one is likely the best choice for the bucks in the list (to start with).