DonC Posted May 20, 2018 Report Posted May 20, 2018 Hello! New to the forum and looking for a second/third/etc opinion on what appears to be Kai-Gunto blade. It has an anchor stamp in a circle with two different sets of numbers on the nakago. The written numbers appear to match the seppa and tsuka end fitting. My real worry is the apparent lack of a hamon anywhere on the blade as I was fairly certain even the factory ones had an aesthetic hamon somehow applied. Though I have heard hamons can be polished out if the blade was not taken care of correctly? Other evidence in the fittings leads me to believe the tsuka and saya may have been poorly restored in the past, and therefore the blade maybe have been polished. I guess my real question is if the stamps/dual numbering is characteristic of any forgery attempts for Kai-Gunto blades? Pictures attached. All information appreciated! -Don Quote
IJASWORDS Posted May 20, 2018 Report Posted May 20, 2018 Looks a lot like the typical stainless steel blade, often seen on KAI's. Quote
Kiipu Posted August 22, 2023 Report Posted August 22, 2023 A possible souvenir sword with black painted number of 四六 and stamped number of 867. 1 Quote
Jcstroud Posted August 29, 2023 Report Posted August 29, 2023 Really not enough to. Go on on this one. Questionable imo Quote
Bruce Pennington Posted August 29, 2023 Report Posted August 29, 2023 9 minutes ago, Jcstroud said: Questionable imo In what way, John? Quote
Jcstroud Posted August 29, 2023 Report Posted August 29, 2023 Without more photos how can you make an educated analysis? 1 Quote
Stephen Posted August 29, 2023 Report Posted August 29, 2023 35 minutes ago, Jcstroud said: Without more photos how can you make an educated analysis? Experience 1 Quote
Jcstroud Posted August 29, 2023 Report Posted August 29, 2023 4 minutes ago, Stephen said: Experience Ok your turn. Quote
ROKUJURO Posted August 29, 2023 Report Posted August 29, 2023 Don, these stainless blades do not have a HAMON unless an artificial one is applied. Quote
Stephen Posted August 30, 2023 Report Posted August 30, 2023 28 minutes ago, Jcstroud said: Ok your turn. Nope you put your thirty years in. Not being harsh keep up with what your doing your on the right path. 1 Quote
Bruce Pennington Posted August 30, 2023 Report Posted August 30, 2023 I am away from home and don’t have my files, but I have a few of these stainless blades with a stamped number and a two digit payment number on file and they are souvenirs. I will check to see if I have any war time swords with both when I get a chance. Quote
Stephen Posted August 30, 2023 Report Posted August 30, 2023 John. Bruce is a excellent mentor much more patient than I. 1 Quote
Bruce Pennington Posted August 30, 2023 Report Posted August 30, 2023 On 5/20/2018 at 1:09 PM, DonC said: I guess my real question is if the stamps/dual numbering is characteristic of any forgery attempts for Kai-Gunto blades? Pictures attached. Don, Back to your question - the answer is no. Dual numbering is not a characteristic of fakery. In fact, it is fairly common on army, navy, and souvenir blades. There are blades with stamped numbers & different painted numbers. There are blades with two different painted numbers, sometimes in the same color; sometimes in different colors. As to John's concerns. I agree photos of the whole nakago and blade would be nice, but from what I can see, this is completely inline with several other stainless blades I have on file. And I've got dual stamped/painted blades in both kaigunto fittings as well as souvenir. 1 Quote
Jcstroud Posted August 31, 2023 Report Posted August 31, 2023 Poor Don C it only took 5 years for a response. From May 20th,2018 til now .....wonder if he is still around? Quote
Jcstroud Posted August 31, 2023 Report Posted August 31, 2023 Since it is in line with the topic. Does anyone know what the length of a Takayama -to nakago on a Kai gunto built for Toyama naval cadets I have not seen one measured yet that was full length I estimate them to be in the area of10.5 inches but have yet to see one physically measured.only virtually estimated using photos with known specifications to estimate. Anyone? Quote
Bruce Pennington Posted September 1, 2023 Report Posted September 1, 2023 4 hours ago, Jcstroud said: Takayama -to nakago on a Kai gunto built for Toyama naval cadets Curious to learn how we would know if a sword was made for naval cadets? 1 Quote
Jcstroud Posted September 2, 2023 Report Posted September 2, 2023 I have read that they were unadorned basicTakayamatos with plain koshirai with long nakagos in excess of 10.4 inches maybe it is a myth. But I seen some described as such. Quote
Jcstroud Posted September 3, 2023 Report Posted September 3, 2023 My previous post is in error Takayama to and nakago are not to be expressed in the plural. Am I bad.....oh well back to school ! Quote
Kiipu Posted September 3, 2023 Report Posted September 3, 2023 On 8/31/2023 at 3:05 PM, Jcstroud said: Takayama-to nakago on a kaigunto built for Toyama naval cadets. I think not as Toyama was an army school and not a naval school. 陸軍戸山学校 = Army Toyama Physical Training School. 陸軍戸山学校 1 Quote
Jcstroud Posted September 3, 2023 Report Posted September 3, 2023 I stand corrected ,seem to have confused Takayama Ryu with Toyama Ryu, goes to show you can not believe everything you read. I too am looking for the emoji for : dang! 1 Quote
Jcstroud Posted September 3, 2023 Report Posted September 3, 2023 Signed Takayama-To Sword & Scabbard (Saya). Signed on Nakago (Tang) Scabbard (Sava). This is a WW2 Japanese naval sword. It was made by the Takayama sword forge facility, which made Japanese naval officer swords. This obviously is not a true naval officer's sword, it is a Toyama Ryu iai katana; these katanas were used solely for training. Takayama-To swords were developed by the Japanese Navy under the direction of Col. Takayama Masayoshi. He was the creator of Jissen Budo Takayama Ryu Batto Jutsu (AKA Toyama Ryu iai),I This is where I found the misleading information.Like I said cannot believe everything you read..... Quote
Bruce Pennington Posted September 3, 2023 Report Posted September 3, 2023 Wonder where he got his information. I've never heard of a sword made just for training. Quote
Jcstroud Posted September 3, 2023 Report Posted September 3, 2023 sometimes for me it is better this way. Time to refocus. 1 Quote
Jcstroud Posted September 16, 2023 Report Posted September 16, 2023 Does anyone on the forum know what is the Nakago length of an uncut Takayama -to ? 1st design with snub nosed thick kissaki ? Quote
Jcstroud Posted September 21, 2023 Report Posted September 21, 2023 On 9/16/2023 at 7:47 AM, Jcstroud said: Does anyone on the forum know what is the Nakago length of an uncut Takayama -to ? I believe I found the answer :There is posted on the Tomoyuki Ohmura website a photo of an Ishihara Masanao Takayama-To using the specifications from the 1940 Bujin-to specification width of 33.6 mmwas able to compute the Nakago length to be 1 shaku or 11.9 inches or303 mm now that is a long nakago !!!😁 1 Quote
Conway S Posted September 21, 2023 Report Posted September 21, 2023 @Jcstroud Did you see the one posted in this thread by Swords? Scroll down past the eBay sword. Conway 1 Quote
Jcstroud Posted September 21, 2023 Report Posted September 21, 2023 36 minutes ago, Conway S said: Did you see the one posted in this thread by Swords? Scroll down past the eBay sword Just saw it what a lucky guy thats a steal at that price now that too looks like 1 shaku nakago hopefully we will get a real life measurement to verify my estimates,thanks for the link very cool. John S. Quote
Jcstroud Posted September 21, 2023 Report Posted September 21, 2023 This the one you are talking about ? 1 Quote
Jcstroud Posted September 23, 2023 Report Posted September 23, 2023 On 9/3/2023 at 10:08 AM, Bruce Pennington said: Wonder where he got his information. I've never heard of a sword made just for training. Recently read in page3 through page 5 of @mecox Japanese Sword Pdf #2 there is a statement saying the Takayama to was used for cadet training .FYI John S.😁 Quote
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