Ww2 Bringback - Wakizashi Opinions?

[FletchSan]

Hi All,

 

I recently picked up two swords that were brought back from ww2. A rusty Katana with interesting original Koshirae and a Wakizashi with a pretty active hamon in nice condition. Neither have military fittings.

I'd like thoughts on both swords, though will start with the Wakizashi in this post.

 

Nagasa: 56cm

Sori : 1.0cm

Kasane: 0.5cm

 

I'll let the pictures do the talking Interested in opinions - I'm pretty happy with it.

 

cheers,

 

Ben

[Grey Doffin]

Awadaguchi Fujiwara Tadatsuna.  Pretty important Shinto smith if it's right.

Grey

[FletchSan]

Thanks Grey - The mei isn't too dissimilar to this example. What do you think?

 

http://www.sanmei.com/contents/media/N12962_W6940_PUP_E.htm

[Grey Doffin]

Hi Ben,

I see some significant differences.  This isn't saying that I think your sword is gimei; you need to compare yours with a variety of mei to get a better idea (you should be able to find many online and, of course, in books).  How does the work compare with what Tadatsuna is known for?  That should be the 1st test.

Grey

[SteveM]

Looks interesting. I like the hada. The fittings seem to be a hodgepodge of garden variety tosogu (looks to me like a WW2-style replica kashira, and the ray skin looks to be new), but the sword looks very good. 

[FletchSan]

Thanks, I really like this sword and it seems to be a notch above my others in quality and the first time I've been able to clearly see & photograph the hada so easily. The fittings are average at best and seem thrown together - I assume some restoration job done some time ago. I'll do some research on Tadatsuna and compare the aspects of the blade with his work. I have only been able to find one example of the 1st gen mei with Fujiwara so far and the Markus Sesko Kantei book I have only has an example of the 2nd gen.

 

Are there good online resources available for signature comparison?

 

thanks,

 

Ben

[SteveM]

http://www.token-net.com/soldout/201310-25.html

http://katanatogishi.seesaa.net/article/413681731.html

http://www.seiyudo.com/ka-098129.htm

 

Here are a few more. I just did a random search for 粟田口藤原忠綱. You can copy and past into a search engine and may get different results. 

[FletchSan]

Thanks Steve, i hadn't considered searching for the Kanji - makes sense!

 

I've compared a few - mine is the 3rd in the attached and its probably closest to this one (the 2nd one).

 

http://winners-auction.jp/productDetail/53485

 

Ben

[Jacques]

Sorry to be frank.

 

Gimei 100%.  On shinogi zukuri swords, mei is always centered on the nakago shinogi. on this sword it is not.

[Darcy]

There are two Tadatsuna with the highly skilled and famous one being the 2nd generation. 

 

I didn't like the balooning 田 character. I don't see any in the Juyo like this. The papered example you found from Winners is the Shodai. So that seems to allow this for the Shodai Tadatsuna. 

 

Jacques is correct about the mei of the nidai being on the shinogi. He did it on purpose, you can tell because the date inscriptions will be above the shinogi on the flip side showing it to be a purposeful habit of his signature. As well some additional inscriptions (such as hori do saku) on the flip side may be below the shinogi. But the mei will always remain on the shinogi. 

 

The shodai example from winners shows the same habit. 

 

The Shodai has no Juyo so it's not so easy to find signatures for comparison. Anyway, 2nd gen is definitely ruled out, 1st gen is possible, and you are dealing with hoping that he invented this rule of signing on the shinogi halfway through his career and handed it on to the 2nd gen. If I had to bet I'd bet gimei but I'd research it in full to be sure. 

[FletchSan]

Thanks Jacques and Darcy. This image shows the shinogi more clearly and I can see the characters are a little offset vs centred. Amazing that a few mm can make all the difference! I'll continue my research and see what other examples I can find as that's a lot of fun gimei or not. I've compared it to one of the others I found which is closer in position though can't tell if that example is papered as I can't read the Japanese on the site.

 

http://soushin-lab.co.jp/test20160126/soldout/201310-25.html

 

I'm also visiting a local togishi soon and will take this sword along and let you know his thoughts.

 

cheers,

 

Ben

[FletchSan]

I found this example which is papered though signed Awataguchi Omi no Kami Tadatsuna and attributed to the Shodai Tadatsuna.

 

It is also a little off centre to the shinogi.

http://nihontofrance.com/nihonto-2/tadatsuna-katana-2/?lang=en

 

Ben

 

[Shugyosha]

Hi Ben,

 

The Soushin one is papered. It's Tokubetsu Hozon. 

 

特別保存刀剣 

 

Best,

John

[Jacques]

 

 

 

 

Jacques is correct about the mei of the nidai being on the shinogi.

 

 

Shodai and nidai both centered their mei on the nakago shinogi.

[Jacques]

I found this example which is papered though signed Awataguchi Omi no Kami Tadatsuna and attributed to the Shodai Tadatsuna.

 

It is also a little off centre to the shinogi.

http://nihontofrance.com/nihonto-2/tadatsuna-katana-2/?lang=en

 

Ben

 

Nidai's one

[Chango]

Just to echo everyone else (and I'm by no means an expert) but I think it's gimei too. I have been pouring over Awataguchi Tadatsuna School info for the past year after I bought a Shodai Tadayuki blade (which is currently off for restoration). Based on what I've learned, here are my thoughts:

 

The mei just looks like someone trying to copy a signature and even drifts off to one side towards the end. It doesn't match the real Tadatsuna 1's signature very well.

 

The blade itself is nice but it just doesn't look right to me; I'm too new at this to put a finger on why it looks "wrong" to me exactly but the entire shape of the blade doesn't quite match the school; it seems too thick with too little taper towards the tip of the blade and seems to have too much curve in the blade.

 

Overall quality and the hamon is nice but it doesn't match up to the level of other blades from this smith that I have seen pics of. Shodai Tadatsuna was a true shinto master smith and this blade just doesn't make the grade compared to his and the other master smiths of this school.

 

My Tadayuki also didn't have those rough crosshatch file marks across the the back of the nakago near the notches for the habaki (the spine of the nakago); yeah it's a different smith but Tadayuki 1 was Tadatsuna 1's student and younger brother and their works are very similar.

 

One more observation... the hamon pattern keeps going into the nakago instead of running off the end of the blade in a curved line just past the habaki notches (as per Tadatsuna's other works) and the rust seems lighter towards the top of the nakago. Perhaps this blade was shortened a bit and/or turned into a wakazashi from a katana; the forger may have reshaped the nakago to look like a Tadatsuna school blade and added the signature.

 

Finally, it's a commonly forged name and definitely one to be suspicious of out the door. While I think it's still a true edo period blade (probably more towards late edo vintage) and has it's own merits I wouldn't bother sending it to shinsa or expect to get thousands of dollars for it on the market as it's certainly among one of the more blatant gimei blades if even I can plainly recognize it.

[FletchSan]

Thanks Jason. It would have been pretty amazing to be genuine though I didn't buy it for that possibility and really wanted it for the decent hamon and fine hada.

I'm still taking it with me to see my local togishi next weekend and I'm sure he'll also confirm what everyone is saying

 

I'll do a separate post for the katana that was also a sword brought back from ww2. This one is has a fairly rusty blade but a few interesting features and I'm hoping to get a window opened up. Its mumei however there are faint traces of a silver inscription on the nagako and the koshirae is original with the family mon on all fittings.

 

cheers,

 

Ben