Information sought on my wakizashi

[Robert C. Walker]

I recently received this item as a gift and I am curious about it. I have no interest in using any information received for commercial purposes as I have no intention of selling it. I am new to the details of nihonto although not new to a strong appreciation for Japanese swords. I am unsure how useful these particular photos will be.

 

Thanks for any comments.

[remzy]

Is this glue that i see under the habaki??? hum... can you remove it and take some shots without the seppa and habaki please. If you cant, then there might be a slight problem.

 

also, closeup makes it easier to identify blades in general, especially if said blade isnt freshly polished.

 

Remy

[Robert C. Walker]

It is not glue. It appears to be some sort of shim of paper or possibly leather under the seppa. There is no sign of anything under the habaki but blade. I can easily remove the seppa but I do not know how to remove the habaki, it is tight and I don't want to damage anything.

 

I will take some better close-ups when the sun comes back.

[Robert C. Walker]

Well, you learn something new every day.

[Brian]

Hi Robert,

 

Looks like a nice blade, and still fairly healthy.

At a quick glance (and I may stand corrected) it looks like a naginata-naoshi to me. A naginata (or nagamaki) that was later cut down and reshaped into a wakizashi. This was quite common when the need for polearms subsided, and styles changed.

Let's see if anyone agrees.

 

Regards,

Brian

[Jacques]

Hi,

 

I think it's more a nagamaki naoshi than a naginata naoshi one

[Brian]

Yes, I would have to agree with you there. Easy to just say it is a shobu zukuri wakizashi, but from the sugata I would go with the cut down polearm. Especially with the boshi having no turnback and looking like it may have been possibly wider at the kissaki at some stage?

As for the dating, I will have to leave that up to the experts here.

Since we can't see the hada clearly, it would have to be an educated guess, but probably at least shinto?

Looks likeit was done decently and professionally and looks like a nice item, especially with the attractive fittings shown in the tosogu section.

 

Regards,

Brian

[nagamaki - Franco]

Hi, I will offer a differing opinion that this is a shobu-zukuri wakizashi that was made just the way you see it. The nakago is slightly machi-okuri and that is all. Shape wise and from what else can be viewed it would tend towards the shinto period, but not conclusive. Looks like a well made piece.

 

Where is the evidence that this blade has been shortened or reshaped at either end?

[Jean]

Franco,

 

I agree with you, IMHO (It is very Humble, believe me on this one :D :D ),

I'll go for Shinto, ubu wak.

 

Whatever it is, I love it.

 

My heart is split between the Eikyo Bizen slender wak and very stout wak like this one it seems so powerfull.

[Jacques]

Hi,

 

Seems unokubi-zukuri (cormoran's neck) and not shobu-zukuri (iris leaf),

 

Is the mune narrower than the shinogi? Especially on the nakago?

 

Where is the evidence that this blade has been shortened or reshaped at either end?

 

Look at the hamon, it goes straight in the nakago and disappears in the rust

[Brian]

Yes..I was just going to post that

At the least, it appears as though it is machi okuri, but with the hamon running straight into the nakago, I would expect that if the machi were moved up, then we would at least see another mekugi ana. The lack of a second one either indicates an ubu nakago or it is greatly o-suriage.

The mune also looked narrowing to me, which makes me think even more of a nagamaki or naginata. The lack of hi would lean towards nagamaki.

If the shortening were done professionally back before the 1700's, then the nakago jiri might have been finished off properly like this, and the natural patina would have had time to build up.

All just my theory of course. No way to ask the original smith :D

 

Brian

[Robert C. Walker]

Thank you all so much for all the information. Now I have some studying to do to understand all the terminology. It certainly appears that this blade is well worth studying.

[Robert C. Walker]

Just an update on my wakizashi. It is now in the hands of a polisher for restoration. He said that it appears to be about 500 years old and he expects to be able to determine the smith once it is polished. I guess after that I should send it to Japan for papers.

[Robert C. Walker]

I visited my wakizashi last week and it looks great in polish. I left it behind to have the saya restored and I am purchasing a new tsuba to replace the one that was on it. Once I get it back, I will post some photos.

 

The polisher assessed the blade as koto with attribution to Fujiwara Masasane.

 

Once I have enjoyed it for a while, I will send it for Shinsa, along with the fuchi-kashira.

[reinhard]

Look at the hamon, it goes straight in the nakago and disappears in the rust

 

There is no hamon visible on this pic, only kesho-polish outline and some dark patches within habaki area. This doesn't mean, it's not there. It's just not visible on the pics we can see here.

 

reinhard

[Hermes]

Great gift, killer blade, i would get a new Habaki made as well, the one it has is not good enough IMO, i would get a silver one myself. Can't wait to see it when you get it back Robert.

 

James

[Robert C. Walker]

Even in polish, the hamon does not look as spectacular as others that I have seen. I added a couple of other pre-polish photos in case they add anything. Obviously, post-polish photos will be more valuable.

[benkyoka]

Robert,

 

It has a nice strong shape that I am sure will look fantastic once polished. Please do post pictures when it returns to you.

 

It is good to see another Vancouver-islander on the forums.

[Robert C. Walker]

Vancouver Island is almost as close as I can get to Japan and still be in Canada.

[nagamaki - Franco]

Vancouver Island is almost as close as I can get to Japan and still be in Canada.

 

hi, hope you realize that you have an excellent polisher in Takeo Seki, located right in BC Canada.

[Stever]

Fine. Reinhard, I respectfully disagree with your statement that the hamon can not be seen as I have no trouble seeing it. Also, I respectfully disagree with your call on the other thread where you state unequivocally that the mei is fake when it isn't.

 

Brian, I have issues with arguments that don't follow the rules of logic, such as argument from authority as is regularly exercised here by certain members. You want me to leave them alone, fine, but please apply the same rules to them when they go off on someone else. I don't see why I have to fall in line with others' prejudices.

 

>>I often wonder if people spent as much time and effort on studying Nihonto as they do on their own particular personality clashes here..how advanced would they be in their studies?

 

Don't assume that this prevents progress in the field. The two things are not related in any way. Human nature I suppose to make such assumptions, but they are false.

 

thanks and goodnight,

/steve

[Brian]

When are people going to realise that they are allowed opinions here? I'm not going to ban anyone for having an opinion, however that leeway only extends while they are polite and civil. Everyone has a rant now and then, it is after the second or third rant that I get tired and consider using "that" button.

That being said...I think you have a few good points...but a lot of incorrect ones. For a free forum doing what few out there are doing, I don't think we do too badly at all. Ppl pay for some of this info. I challenge you to show me other sites that give translations as freely as we do. I also challenge you to find a better source of free oshigata, mei, book extracts and pictures of swords and tosogu. And all for the price of what? Nothing except the time and effort of some of the people you are criticising.

You state "There is almost as much BS being spread as real information here of late" and I frankly challenge that opinion. We are studying art, and if you think that is going to go smoothly and without conflict ever, then i think you obviously have access to some INTERNET 3.0 that we don't have access to. It goes the way it does. We do our best, but with a medium that was never intended for this field. Ideally...Nihonto should NOT be studied online. That is a fact. However this is a good second best that allows people with common interests to come together, and at the very least meet people with similar interests and perhaps indulge in some trading and get to know the people they are dealing with. If good info is the by-product, then we are lucky indeed.

You also state "Even many of the informative posts are simple rehashing of widely-available knowledge." and i don't think I will even bother going into that, as I am not sure exactly what you expect from an internet forum. You want us to go to a small and exclusive advanced band of collectors that all agree with each other and make this by invite only? That way no-one disagrees with anyone, and we can all make up theories and have no-one challenge them. It would certainly be easier, but by no means more helpful to all the newcomers out there. No...as long as people ignore the advice of buying books and studying before purchasing, we will be here to try and change their minds and try and help them. Some of them will be the future of collecting. Maybe one or 2 will be the ones that write the future books on subjects that we have covered even slightly.

But expecting groundbreaking info to come out on an internet forum that the Japanese experts have somehow missed the past 800 years is just not going to happen. So if that means we re-hash the info out there, then so be it. I have a lot of books...but learn new things here daily. If some don't...then why bother reading this forum?

 

I'm too tired to go into this more right now. I am sure others will have their say.

In the interests of keeping this on topic, I'll let this run until ppl have had their say (again) and then prune the thread in a day or 2.

Gotta wonder what is gained by these post though. I often wonder if people spent as much time and effort on studying Nihonto as they do on their own particular personality clashes here..how much more advanced would they be in their studies?

Would have been far simpler to just say "I respectfully disagree with your post, in that I can clearly see the hamon in pic xxxx" and then let the debate evolve civily. But I guess that doesn't get the axe ground, does it?

 

Brian

[reinhard]

Reinhard, I respectfully disagree with your statement that the hamon can not be seen as I have no trouble seeing it. Also, I respectfully disagree with your call on the other thread where you state unequivocally that the mei is fake when it isn't.

 

Steve,

It's quite difficult to make hamon visible by photography. First of all you need to to know what "hamon" is. Obviously you don't. It is built of nioi and sometimes additional nie, which are micro-crystalline structures visible ONLY under proper light-conditions and viewed from a proper angle. In order to make hamon visible on their pics, some of the more advanced photographers change camera-angle from full frontal to a lower angle almost pointing towards light-source. There are two or three photographers, worldwide, capable of capturing hamon within full frontal view, showing it all over the blade, but they don't work for hobby-collectors. What can be seen in most of the pics by amateurs, is the "make-up" only: the artificial, whitish trace left by final stage of polishing, but this is not the hamon itself. You better not confuse these two "ideas" of hamon. I wish I don't need to tell you what kind of pic we are talking about here.

 

Which mei is it, I "stated unequivocally to be fake when it isn't"? Unless backed-up by incontestable authorities, I don't dare making statements like these. I would like to know what thread you are refering to?

 

reinhard

[Robert C. Walker]

Brian,

 

Thank you, and every one else involved in the care and nurturing of this forum. I came to it as a highly interested but highly ignorant newbie and it has done so much to strengthen my interests and my curiousity. I have benefited greatly from the opinions freely expressed, the discussions and the breadth of knowledge displayed here.

 

I check every couple of days to see what new posts exist and I am beginning to grasp how broad the field is and how deeply one can delve into it. The emerging story of my blade has me completely engrossed, I am beginnning to accummulate, and read, some relevant books and I am very excited about nihonto, wherever it takes me. Hopefully I will gain some knowledge and wisdom along the way.

 

Your efforts are appreciated and highly worthwhile.

[Jacques]

Hi,

 

About hamon, this link is explicative, and i would add the hamon can be seen since koma-nagura.

[Brian]

Without this becoming an argument, how about a civil discussion on the subject of hamon vs yakiba?

This all comes down to the actual definitions again.

What we often call the hamon is actually the yakiba. Who wants to clarify for everyone without this becoming an argument?

We would need to define nioi guchi also.

 

Brian

[Jean]

and habuchi ......

[Jacques]

Hi,

 

FWIK, the hamon is the line separating the hira-ji and the yakiba, the nioi-guchi or habuchi (they are same things) is a integrative part of the hamon, its separates the hamon from the hira-ji.

[Jean]

Nioiguchi: 匂口 The part of the nioi line next to the ji.

Habuchi: 刃縁 or 刃端 Borderline between the ji and the yakiba.

[Brian]

So from the middle stages of the polishing process, and in most out of polish blades, are we seeing the hamon like we usually call it, or are we seeing the yakiba? An amateur polish might show the hardened steel as a nice contrasting band, but is it showing the actual hamon?

Yes, we probably use the term wrongly all the time, however most of us know what we really mean. Add it to the list along with Showato,Gendaito and all the other terms that aren't strictly speaking used correctly.

 

Brian