Retainer

[East London 1+]

Hi All

 

if a swordsmith is a retainer of a province (South Tosa) does that mean he is regarded as a decent swordsmith or does it not mean to much.

 

John C.

[Fuuten]

Well; just from what you said alone, a retained persion of any skill was someone in service of a certain clan or family. Although any family is a family, i highly doubt a succesful family would employ someone who didn't have a certain excelling skill.

 

So in short, it means as much as the family was worth i suppose. I'm sorry but i can't speculate on the ranking of a certain clan or family in the South of Tosa.

 

However feel free to correct me - anyone.

[Toryu2020]

It means he recieved a stipend for his work so had a patron, was not an independant artist. and as Axel says the bigger the family name the better the smith as a general rule.

-t

[kusunokimasahige]

Also take into account that in Tosa there was a rigid division between retainers of Kashi and Joshi status of which the latter one were higher in rank. It is virtually impossible to ascertain if a swordsmith was of either class but the better swords would probably have elevated a smith.

Ryoma Sakamoto was of Kashi class but his sword was by a well known Smith who probably was Joshi class.

KM

[Fuuten]

Also take into account that in Tosa there was a rigid division between retainers of Kashi and Joshi status of which the latter one were higher in rank. It is virtually impossible to ascertain if a swordsmith was of either class but the better swords would probably have elevated a smith.

 

Your comment struck me with a question;

 

Are there certain tanks/status that go for all retained artisans? And how would Kashi & Joshi relate to say a retained swordsmith of the Tokugawa/Bakufu?

[kusunokimasahige]

Well the most simple explanation for Tosa specifically I can give is that Kashi were lineated to people who fought against Tokugawa at Sekigahara (Chôsokabe) and Joshi were lineated to people who fought on the side of the Tokugawa.(Yamauchi) Tosa was handed over to the Yamauchi after Sekigahara. Outside of the Tosa-han it mattered far less if you were Joshi or Kashi or member of a Tozama or Fudai han, especially in later centuries. The Tosa han kept this strict division till the end of the Samurai era.

I am not sure what status would be attached to retained artisans but where and when an artisan was also a retainer this meant that being a retainer and performing your duty came first at all times.

Kashi were lower in status than Joshi which during the time of Ryoma Sakamoto and the Sonno Joi campaigns in several Han led to extreme problems, in Tosa especially when the Kashi came up with their Tosa Loyalist Party "Kinnoto". Under leadership of Takechi Hanpeitai.

But of what status an artisan was, Kashi or Joshi is almost impossible to ascertain since most records have been long gone.

More info here :

http://wiki.samurai-archives.com/index.php?title=Tosa_han.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sakamoto_Ry%C5%8Dma



By the way, Aoi-art has a sword made by the same smith who made the sword of Ryoma
(5.406,88 USD)

http://www.aoijapan.com/wakizashi-yoshiyuki-mutsu-kami-tosacutting-test

[Fuuten]

Thank you for the detailed and sourced reply. Very interesting!

 

I suppose whoever ends up on top creates history:) Which might be why Joshi is above the other (if they were on Tokugawa's side).

[East London 1+]

Thanks to you all for your informative and interesting answers.

 

John C

[Greg F]

Hi guys, it surprises me the sword at Aoi-art isnt at a higher price. Great one to own. Interesting stuff thanks guys.

Greg

[kusunokimasahige]

Well... Ryoma does that...