New Member - Some Questions

[JanS]

Hi,

So recently joined after lurking around for a week or two. Used to collect vintage Rolex watches and this seems familiar, but even less transparent and way more complicated.

 

I'm 40 years old and started martial arts (FMA Kali/JKD/Muay Thai) a couple of years ago and been fascinated by Zen and Bushido after living in Asia for some years and after traveling to Japan a couple of times. Long story short - nihonto symbolises the Japanese culture and some kind of perfection that is almost attainable - and still the goal post for a sword keeps moving the more I research.

 

Some rookie questions:

How long does a good polish last, if you oil the blade and keep it in a shirasaya?

Seems a good start would be a katana with a signature, minimum Hozon with papers and a good polish in a shirasaya, or?

Any good advises before I go ahead with my first buy?

I dream about one fantastic Katana with a beautiful harmon for show in a shirasaya. Eventually would also like a blade to practice Iaido drawing and/or to practice cutting - does any of you use real Japanese swords for that or a Paul Chen or similar?

I can't figure out if I should go for a nice Wakizashi with Hozon papers at 3-4 K or go further and buy a Katana Tokubetsu Hozon or a Juyo candidate at 8-15K?

I really like this one, which is right in the middle: http://www.aoijapan.com/katana-kozuke-no-suke-minamoto-yoshimasa

Any pros or cons for that blade?

How important is the Koshirae, Tsuba etc?

 

Thanks in advance.

[Geraint]

Hi Jan.

 

Let me start the ball rolling.  A good polish, done by a respected Japanese polisher, should last longer than you will be worried about.  I have seen it suggested that a hundred years is about right but at best that is only a guide.

If you look at the FAQ section at the top of the page you ill find advice about caring for your sword.  Depending on where you are located a local club may be a good place to learn and see other peoples's swords.

 

The level at which you jump into a purchase depends on many factors, the example you give seems like a good place to start and from a respected dealer.  Personally the idea of spending Juyo level funds for a first sword would seem like a mistake.  Learning a great deal about a sword such as the one you have suggested will allow you to work out what you really admire and want to live with.  Should you decide that you want more than just the one, and that will probably happen, then you might feel confident in heading up market.

 

Koshirae do add to a blade if they are original and very good.  Some collectors only have blades in shirasaya.

 

Hope this helps.

 

All the best.

[Grey Doffin]

Hi Jan,

A polish can last 100 years if properly cared for but can be done for in less than a day in the wrong hands.

Since you are a beginner, if you must buy a sword, stick with well respected dealers whose advice you can trust.  Your tastes will change as you gain knowledge and someday you'll want to sell your 1st sword.  When that time comes, it would be nice if you didn't take a bath.

I always recommend study, and a lot of it, before buying a 1st sword.  The more you know, the better the choice you'll make.

Grey

[seattle1]

Hello Jan:

You ask a number of interesting, if mingled, questions.

Geraint is quite right to point out that a polish will last a long while, perhaps well longer than 100 years. Some years ago the US Federal Government, owner of the world's largest car fleet, did a study to determine what factors most contributed to them going to the junk yard, and the answer was how many times they were started. Similarly for the Japanese sword I would think the corresponding wear factor would be the number of times drawn from the saya. That act alone, if done improperly, will bring real damage, and the list goes on from there.

Oiling a blade and keeping it in that condition is really a matter of the climate where you live and particularly its disposition to rapid climatic changes. Oil might do little to preserve the blade and certainly won't help the shirasaya. If the blade you buy has had a recent professional polish, then judicious handling and periodic proper application of high quality uchiko should be all you need and it might even enhance the polish.

Perhaps you should decide whether you want a perfect blade delivered to you, or whether you want to engage in a learning process in which you acquire an unpolished blade and learn the ropes of seeing it through the various steps of the restoration process, papering, etc. During early Shinto times,when it was mandatory for samurai to wear two swords, many fine wakizashi were made for them and for the newly rich merchant class by the top tier of smiths of the day. You would be surprised at what a fine Jo or even Jo Jo level smith, ubu and fully signed that you can buy reasonably and start that learning process.

I would advise you to forget about "Juyo candidates", particularly o-suriage ones, for at any sword show there are some dealers who would be happy to sell you more of those than there are current Republican candidates vying for a Presidential nomination. Someone is likely to get it, but there a lot of very long shot "candidates".

Finally the referenced Yoshimasa blade looks like an excellent buy if you want a drive away package set to go. I notice it also has a torokusho date of Showa 26. That might mean nothing in its case, or it could also indicate that the sword was once in an important holding at the time of initial registration. Good luck.

Arnold F.

[Stephen]

Jan

 

You seem to be level headed, buy what speaks to you and go from there. Best approach, make a show and get a feel for it in hand, believe me one will speak to you. Personally one in mounts is more enjoyable. 

[Jamie]

I disagree that she she should buy a sword and see it through restoration. I think when starting out one might consider a decent blade in polish. Because you can study that. And navigating through restoration can be tricky if you don't know the right people to choose each piece along the way to restoration. Biggest factor there is learning the blade itself.

Why do like this particular sword?

[Ken-Hawaii]

Hi, Jan:

 

I vote with Grey: buy books, study, & then figure out what your real interest is. My interest, for example, is Bizen blades from Kamakura & Nambokucho periods, & maybe early Muromachi. But I wasted a lot of money buying blades that no longer interest me that much, when I should have been buying books!

 

How long a polish lasts depends on many things, including the skill of the togishi (master polisher), how the blade is stored (shirasaya, etc.), & the storage environment. High humidity, for example, can ruin a blade in months. You'll store the blade in shirasaya, which generally protects it pretty well from the environment. Koshirae was used for battle, not storage. Tosogu (tsuba, menuki, fuchi-kashira, etc.) aren't necessities unless you do have koshirae.

 

If you decide that you MUST buy your first blade right now - & we all know how you feel, looking for your first Nihonto - follow the 3P rule: Perfect, Polished, Papers. Tsuruta-san at Aoi Art generally sells pretty decent blades, & Tokubetsu Hozon papers are pretty good. However, it's a basic Kanbun Era blade that looks a bit "flashy" to my eye. Lots of activity in the hamon, not a lot in the jihada. Nice nioi-guchi. I can't tell much about the boshi, except from the oshigata, but it looks ko-maru with hakikake. You can't really go wrong spending your money on this blade, Han, as long as Shinto era blades meet your interest.

 

Ken

[JanS]

Hi Ken, Jamie, Stephen, Arnold, Grey and Geraint,

Thanks a lot for some great info.

Guess living in Singapore with very high humidity will prove challenging for any newly polished blade. What is the best way to make a blade survive that? Will it survive in a shirasaya with a bit of oil and wipe it with a micro fiber cloth from times to time?

 

Anyone has a good link to a good value for money starter blade - Wakizashi or a Katana in good polish with Hozon or Tokubetsu Hozon papers?

Jan

[Jamie]

I lived in a very humid place in the U.S. And normal treatment of a light coating of oil did the trick. Personally mine are all stored in shoes says and in silk bags designed for shirasaya. They are not displayed.

Have you decided on any criteria for the blade? Like maybe a school, or tradition.

[Ken-Hawaii]

Books, Jan, think books, like Nagayama's "The Connoisseurs Book of Japanese Swords" or at least Bott's "The Sword of Japan." Please get at least the basics of Nihonto before you start buying blades!

 

Ken

[JanS]

Hi Ken and others,

Got it - I will calm down and I will buy some books first :-)

 

Research and then I will research some more. Just out of curiosity so like Ken say's he likes Bizen blades from Kamakura and Nambokucho periods (why specifically these, if I may ask?) - what do other members like and why specifically - is it the blade form, the look of the hamon or the quality or rarity of the blade, steel or the smith? 

 

I was drawn to this by the aesthetics of the blades and what they represent of the Japanese history/culture - but as a rookie it is hard to see the small nuances yet.

 

Thanks again for the wise words. 

[Ken-Hawaii]

I have one big advantage, Jan: I've been swinging swords for several decades. It's a martial art called iaido, & I hold yondan (4th-degree black belt), so I'm very used to Japanese blades, as is my wife. So it was a fairly small step to start studying & collecting Nihonto, instead of the iaito & shinken we were already using in our training.

 

I probably decided on Bizen blades when my wife & I visited the Bizen-Osafune Sword Village in Okayama, Japan (http://en.japantravel.com/view/osefune-sword-museum), & saw how the tosho (smiths) were actually making blades. The museum portion also let me spend hours looking at (& drooling over) nearly 1000 years of Bizen Nihonto. But what got me interested in the Kamakura & Nambokucho periods was the mentoring I receive from a friend who has been collecting for more than 50 years. He has been working with my granddaughter & me for over a year, showing me the extreme differences between the older Koto blades, & those made in Shinto & Shinshinto times. His specific interest is in Soshu blades, but I didn't have to look at Bizen blades to see how much more detail there is in the jihada, how elegant Kamakura blades are, & how & why massive Nambokucho blades were made to fight off the Mongols.

 

So there likely won't be one single thing that will persuade you to get interested in a specific sword school & period, Jan, but as you learn more about how, when, & why blades were made, I can almost guarantee that you'll start developing your own preferences. I can also refer you to an article on my Web-site (http://jssh.org/tips.html) that was written by a fellow NMB member, & that should be mandatory reading for all new collectors (& a good reminder for some of us older ones, too)!

 

Ken

[Jamie]

I like koto Yamashiro, Bizen, and especially Soshu.

The livliness of the hamon. Not any certain pattern but the effects within it. I love bright and silvery nie.

[JanS]

Hi everyone,

Been traveling this week.

 

Thanks everyone for the PMs with sword suggestions and the info on books and the good ideas for taking care of the blade. I have ordered a couple of books to get started on my research and will continue reading here and probably come with more questions shortly. 

This board is a great source of knowledge. Thanks for a very nice welcome.

Jan

[Kai-Gunto]

Hello,

I would never use an old sword or new one for cutting , but P. Chen and J. Lee is okay for me????