Storing And Displaying Blades

[Robertex]

I would like to ask the many prolific collectors on this site a couple of questions regarding storing and displaying blades.

I notice that most if not all high-value katana are in shirasaya.  If you find and purchase a katana that happens to be in koshirae do you have shirasaya made for the blade, or do you store and/or display the blade in its koshirae?  If shirasaya is made, do you keep the koshirae and have tsunagi made for it?

I'm certain personal preference comes into play here somewhere; however, I'm wondering if there's a standard convention among the high-end collectors (of which I am not!).

Thanks in advance.

Carl

[Derek]

Yes, nihonto are always stored in shirasaya.  The fit, type of wood, and finish are designed to store the sword safely long term.  (Lightly oil the blade if the climate requires.) 

Most people have a tsunagi made for their koshirae.  A saya as part of a koshirae is usually laquered, which does not allow the blade to breath.  The blade is usally not oiled in the saya, as it is for temporary use. 

A shirasaya can also be split open if needed for cleaning.

A nice shirasaya can be crafted pretty inexpensively.  (Maybe $300 to $700 or so, depending on many factors)

I usually have mine made when I send a sword for polishing.

[hxv]

Carl,

 

Generally, I have new shirasaya made when newly purchased swords have ill-fitting koshirae or shirasaya, or when I send my swords out for new polish. Considering the monetary cost of having a sword polished and the intangible cost of shortening the serviceable life of the sword, the cost of new shirasaya is comparatively small to protect your new polish. If a sword comes to me in good polish, and the old shirasaya and/or koshirae fits well, I would not bother having new shirasaya made. Having said that, if my sword comes in koshirae, and I decide to have new shirasaya made, then yes, I will have a tsunagi made at the same time to hold the koshirae together.

 

Disclaimer: I stated my personal preference. Others may have different thoughts.

 

Regards,

Hoanh

 

Derek: Our posts crossed.

[Robertex]

Gentlemen,

Many thanks, as your replies make perfect sense to the reasoning.

 

Hoanh,

I remember asking this board some time ago about makers of shirasaya in the U.S. and you kindly provided the names John Tirado and Brian Tschemega.  Are they still your preferred choices?

Thanks again.

Carl

[Derek]

i've seen Brian Tschernega's work, and I've always been impressed.  Plus, he's a really nice guy.  His habaki are outstanding in every way.  I'm sure that if you ask here, someone will pm you with his contact info.

[Grey Doffin]

Ditto for John Tirado: nice guy, great work.

If a sword comes in koshirae I leave it there, but if I have the sword polished then shira-saya is the only option that makes sense.  No telling what grit is inside the old saya that might screw up the new polish.

Grey

[Ken-Hawaii]

Carl, I do have several of my blades stored in koshirae, but they are inside my katanadansu. Shirasaya are really mini-katanadansu, & are used for storage from the elements when a full katanadansu isn't available.

 

As Grey points out, once you have a newly-polished blade, it will come with a sparkling new, custom-made shirasaya, with zero grit or grime.

 

Ken

[Robertex]

Gentlemen,

You have been of tremendous help to me in my education.  I now have a decision to make whether or not to send a katana out for polish, as I assume shirasaya for a blade in old polish would be moot.  However, does one have the shirasaya made ahead of time and shipped with the blade to the polisher?

Please accept my apology for these tedious questions.

Carl

[Ken-Hawaii]

No, the togishi (polisher) takes care of that, John, along with, in most cases, a new habaki.

 

Ken

[Robertex]

Ken,

I read in an earlier post that there are only two Japanese-trained togishi in CONUS.  Would that be John Tirado and Brian Tschemega, or do they work in concert with the togishi?

Thanks,

Carl

[hxv]

Carl,

 

Brian and John are sayashi, not togishi.  They work in concert with a togishi of your choice. You will send your sword to a (hopefully reputable and Japanese-trained) togishi. He will coordinate with a sayashi of your choice and will send the sword out for habaki and shirasaya at the correct stage of polishing. Logistically, it's pretty simple: 1. pick and togishi and tell him you want him to use a particular sayashi and tell him what you want to do with your sword, 2. send him your sword, 3. pay the bill. If you want to send the sword to Japan for shinsa after polishing, all you have to do is instruct the togishi and he will do it for you, for a fee.

 

Regards,

Hoanh

[Ken-Hawaii]

Hoanh is correct, Carl, they are both sayashi. The togishi I use is Robert Benson, who is acknowledged as Japanese-trained and, for me here in Hawaii, about a 20-minute trip away. I'm not sure which sayashi he's using these days, but I've had no problem with the results I've gotten!

 

Ken

[hxv]

Ken,

 

I think by default, Bob uses John, unless you specify otherwise.

 

Regards,

Hoanh

[Ken-Hawaii]

Thanks, Hoanh. I quit worrying about who he uses several years ago, as the results are always good. Bob & Woody have been so busy that Bob told me it'll be an 18-month turn-around for the Nambokucho katana I brought him last week.

 

Ken

[hxv]

Wow! That's a long wait.

 

Hoanh

[Ken-Hawaii]

The last blade I took to him was a wakizashi that took 10 or 11 months to come back to me, and that was over a year ago. So I'm not surprised that it's taking that long these days, Hoanh, with the economy so much better. Oh, & it was $2700 for reshaping & polishing the 30.2-inch blade, including shirasaya. The habaki was still usable, he thinks.

 

Ken

[Robertex]

Gentlemen,

Many thanks again, as the process is very clear to me now.  The next step for me is to determine if my katana in question, which is currently in "old polish", is worthy of a new polish.  I'm certain only a togishi knows best.

Is there a reputable, properly-trained togishi in the Continental U.S.?

Carl

[Grey Doffin]

Hi Carl,

Jimmy Hayashi is in San Francisco and has proper training in Japan.  But he has an even longer wait period, unless circumstances have changed a lot since last time I checked.  Not that difficult to get a sword to Bob Benson in Hawaii, if you want a polisher to tell you if a polish makes sense.  You can also get many educated opinions at any of the sword shows here in conus.

Grey

[Loki]

On the displaying side of your question, if you have a shira-saya made and tsunagi for the koshirae then if you display on a katana kake the blade goes above the fittings.

[kunitaro]

Dear members,

 

I would like to add that

If you keep the blade in old Saya/koshiraer, please don't use any oil on the blade.

If you put oiled blade into old nuri (lacquered) saya, the oil touches inside of saya that will stay in,

It will damage the saya from inside. we see cracked lacquered saya often, because of this.

The shirasaya can be opened and cleaned inside, but not Nuri (lacquered) saya.

 

kunitaro

[Robertex]

Thanks to everyone again for your expert advice!  ('Not sure about bubba-san's input.)

Fortunately, the katana in question has been stored dry in its current saya.  I inspect it regularly to check for corrosion, as I live in a fairly humid region.  However, I would like to get it to a more "storable" condition, which is why I will pursue the polishing evaluation and shirasaya.

Kind regards,

Carl

[Derek]

Carl,

I would suggest that you attend a sword show and get some input.  The people are really nice, and will let you know what your sword is worth before you invest more into it.

A polish, shirasaya, and habaki are going to set you back $3000 or so, depending on many factors... (who/where it is polished, shipping, quality of shirasaya, etc)

Not to mention, the months to years for turn around.  (Again, depending on many factors)

If your sword is worth $2000 now, is it going to be worth $5000 in full polish and new shirasaya?  (Just throwing random #'s)

For some swords, the answer is yes.  Sometimes, the sword has special meaning to the owner, so it merits the expense.

On the other hand, if you see yourself selling it in the next year or two, it probably makes more sense to not polish, learn what you can from it, then sell it. 

I once had a later generation Kanemoto katana that I liked very much, and considered having it polished.  But the math didn't make sense.  The sword was worth $3000 as it was.  It would not have been worth $6000 in full polish.  So instead, I kept it for a while, then sold it and upgraded.

If you see yourself holding on to it for many years, then by all means, consider polishing.  It has been very enjoyable for me to have a sword sent out for polish, and understand the process.

If you decide to go the polish route, I definately recommend contacting Kunitaro san.  He can arrrange professional polishing in Japan, shirasaya, habaki, even shinsa.  His prices are fantastic, and very fast turn-around.

Good luck!

[Jean]

Wise advices as always, Derek

[Robertex]

Derek and Jean,

Wise advice for sure!  I have reached out via another topic thread with this group concerning Nihonto clubs local to my area for precisely the same reason, as sword shows seem few and far between.  

This group has certainly kept me from making a decision in a vacuum and your advice has made me aware of making any decision solely on emotion.

[Robertex]

... one more thing:  I imagine a baseline of NTHK and NBTHK Nihonto in new polish would be the way to go for future purchases?  It will be a long time of study before I can detect the proverbial "diamond in the rough"!

Kind regards,

Carl

[Jean]

Carl,

 

You are entirely right. I have understood a long time ago that buying a full polished papered sword in shirasaya was much cheaper than getting one in the mud, have it restored (new polish, new habaki, new shirasaya) and papered.

 

You cannot imagine the number of "project" swords I have seen on this board that have remained "project" a few years after not only for the restoration costs, but also for the trouble to have to send it somewhere for polishing, in another direction for shirasaya and anotherone for habaki then send it for shinsa... (Guys, I know that the steps mentioned are not in this order )

[Robertex]

Jean,

Your insight may have saved me many years... and many dollars.

Merci!

Carl

[Loki]

Hi,

 

I think the best way to remember Jean's advice is the 3 P's - Polished, Perfect, Papered!

 

However, if you come across something in a flea market or junk shop for a couple of hundred dollars, that looks interesting but needs restoring, you won't pass it up! ))) 

[Robertex]

The "3 Ps"... I like it!

[smicha6551]

Are there any sources for katanadansu in the US, or Japanese dealers that sell to the US?  Are there any issues with storing swords in them (other than normal handling practices, of course)?