bigjohnshea Posted September 21, 2014 Report Posted September 21, 2014 http://www.ebay.com/itm/291243196755?_t ... EBIDX%3AIT Glad to see this item finally getting some bids on ebay. It was stuck at no bids up until a few days ago. I'm not convinced this is anything special but I'm betting it's a Shin-shinto era blade, Ubu, and would polish very nicely. I think if this was on a merchant's site it would easily sell for 1000$ or so. I'm saving my money for the Chicago shinsa fees right now so I'm not going to be bidding, but I think it's worth a look. Cheers, Quote
kusunokimasahige Posted September 21, 2014 Report Posted September 21, 2014 John, what you call a decent blade I call a sword destroyed by fire. It might polish out, but would you really want to take the risk ? KM Quote
bigjohnshea Posted September 21, 2014 Author Report Posted September 21, 2014 I've never seen a sword that was destroyed by fire. What indicates to you that this blade went through a fire? I don't doubt you are right, just want to learn. The blade does look very rusty but we've all seen worse. The shirasaya does not appear to have any damage to it from a fire though, and it does look like an older shirasaya, to me atleast. Cheers, Quote
bigjohnshea Posted September 21, 2014 Author Report Posted September 21, 2014 As an aside, is it fair to assume that any blade could be "destroyed" in a fire given the temperatures that swords are forged in? Most fires do not burn hot enough to destroy glass for instance (melting at around 1500 degress F) and as far as I understand Japanese swords are forged at between 1600-2200 degrees F. Again, just hoping to learn. :-) Cheers, Quote
Brian Posted September 21, 2014 Report Posted September 21, 2014 John, Fire opens the grain and destroys the hamon and hataraki. It is fatal. I do not know if this one was in a fire or not. Brian Quote
cabowen Posted September 21, 2014 Report Posted September 21, 2014 Notice how the yasuri-me change mid way down the nakago. It may have had a false mei removed. Usually, if the blade has been in a fire or sometimes rehardened, you will see a dark, dry looking nakago or somtimes the nakago will be glossy. There may be fire scale as well..This one looks a bit dry but it may be the photo. The hamon is there and looks dynamic so I tend to doubt it was in a fire. For a few hundred dollars, it would be a good gamble...In my opinion... Quote
Stephen Posted September 21, 2014 Report Posted September 21, 2014 id like to know KM's clue to fire, were blades from fire not retempered and used as working swords??? I think so. same time post as Chris Quote
bigjohnshea Posted September 21, 2014 Author Report Posted September 21, 2014 Thank you Brian, Chris and Steven for your insights. Very much appreciate the knowledge. Cheers, Quote
kusunokimasahige Posted September 21, 2014 Report Posted September 21, 2014 Stephen, when you look at the colour differences in the steel they look like high temperature spots. http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/ ... .JPG?rt=nc http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/ ... .JPG?rt=nc http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/ ... .JPG?rt=nc http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/ ... .JPG?rt=nc This in my view it is not consistent with general or even deep rust,more like black rust near the nakago, hence my judgement that it has been in a fire at one time after it was forged. Indeed blades could be retempered but that was to enhance functionality as far as I know and retempering would destroy every clue inside the blade of who made it. It might polish out and I might be mistaken, but that remains to be seen. KM Quote
drbvac Posted September 21, 2014 Report Posted September 21, 2014 Fire - no fire - its still bid to about as much as it could be worth as is Quote
bigjohnshea Posted September 21, 2014 Author Report Posted September 21, 2014 I'm tempted to bid on it now just so I can look closely at what could be considered fire damage. :-) Thank you KM. Very much appreciate you insights. Cheers, Quote
kusunokimasahige Posted September 21, 2014 Report Posted September 21, 2014 I would not say you yourself should not bid on it of course ! I just won a hosozao shamisen, regularly priced at 499-1200 US$ for only 34.50, and the only thing I need to do is repair the skin ! So by all means bid on the sword, you never know. I have seen terribly rusted swords polish out very nicely. That will cost you quite a sum of course.... KM Quote
cabowen Posted September 21, 2014 Report Posted September 21, 2014 If it had been in a fire and not rehardened, it would not have a hamon. It clearly has a strong hamon so it couldn't have been in any significant heat post polish. If it had been in a fire and afterward rehardened, it would have had the fire scale removed before rehardening and polishing, thus no obvious sign of a fire. I can't agree with your logic KM....there isn't anything in my opinion in the photos that looks like it suffered heat damage...the different colored corrosion follows the hamon, which is harder. The rest looks like typical corrosion to me... Anyway, I think we all agree it is no treasure.... Quote
kusunokimasahige Posted September 21, 2014 Report Posted September 21, 2014 Well you do have more knowledge than me of course Chris. I just stated what I thought was the issue. And I might be wrong. Where do you see that Hamon ? I only see reflection of the sunlight and not a clear outline as such. KM Quote
bigjohnshea Posted September 21, 2014 Author Report Posted September 21, 2014 KM, I outlined an area here where I think the hamon is visible. Not sure where Chris was thinking though. Cheers, Quote
cabowen Posted September 21, 2014 Report Posted September 21, 2014 No problem....just trying to make sure we are on the same page... Quote
Tcat Posted September 21, 2014 Report Posted September 21, 2014 annoying the photos don't show where the seller starts measuring from :/ Quote
kusunokimasahige Posted September 21, 2014 Report Posted September 21, 2014 Ah okay, I thought you meant this part : Quote
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