Tampa Show acquisitions

[raven2]

Here are the new pieces I picked up at the show. I am really at sea about the kinko. If anyone has any ideas on it, I would be glad to hear them. At first glance, the iron tsuba is nothing special, but the surface has been nicely worked with hammer and punch, the hitsu ana has been lined, the omote has what I believe is a hot stamp at about 2:00 and the kiku has fine carving and is still in good shape. The kogai is my first one, but I love the ho ho birds and I think it is pretty well done.

[Soshin]

Hi Fred D.,

 

Very nice kogai and I also love the design. You have a eye for quality. :D My shakudo tsuba is one of five new tsuba. I sold/traded two tsuba so that was a net gain of three tsuba to my collection.

[raven2]

Wow , you really did have a good show. I look forward to seeing the others. I was trying to reduce my numbers a bit, but it didn't happen. Sold two and bought two, as well as the kogai and a few other non nihonto stuff for my wife. I thought I was going to reduce the number until Sunday morning when I ran into the iron tsuba. the price was definitely a Sunday specia, so I picked it up.

[ROKUJURO]

Fred,

 

Hohoho, what a nice HOO bird! I like this phoenix KOGAI, looks well made!

 

The dragon TSUBA looks, hum, unusual to my old eyes. What is the material? Could it be a recent production? The SEPPA DAI seems to be untouched while the NAKAGO ANA has TAGANE marks from fitting it to a blade.

 

The iron TOSHO style TSUBA was certainly a nice one, but the surface was in my opinion not treated with hammer and punch but with heavy corrosion. The flower is UME no HANA (round petals), and what you see as a hot stamp was probably carefully chiselled out.

 

But others with more competence may see this differently.

[Soshin]

Hi Fred D.,

 

If we have a massive snow tomorrow and the government offices are closed. I will take more photos and post another tsuba for everyone's enjoyment. This time it will be a old iron one. :D

 

The iron TOSHO style TSUBA was certainly a nice one, but the surface was in my opinion not treated with hammer and punch but with heavy corrosion. The flower is UME no HANA (round petals), and what you see as a hot stamp was probably carefully chiselled out.

 

But others with more competence may see this differently.

 

Hi Jean C.,

 

From what I see in the photos the surface of Tosho style tsuba is not heavy with corrosion. The surface treatment is called (ishime-ji 石目地) and it was a technique used of by many Edo Period tsubako to simulate a ground stone surface. This uneven surface was likely done before it was patinated a process of controlled corrosion to allow ferrous oxides [iron(II) oxide] to form on the surface. I have seen this on many Edo Period Tosho style tsuba. This is just my opinion from looking at the photos but I would need to see the tsuba in hand to confirm.

[raven2]

Fred,

 

Hohoho, what a nice HOO bird! I like this phoenix KOGAI, looks well made!

 

The dragon TSUBA looks, hum, unusual to my old eyes. What is the material? Could it be a recent production? The SEPPA DAI seems to be untouched while the NAKAGO ANA has TAGANE marks from fitting it to a blade.

 

The iron TOSHO style TSUBA was certainly a nice one, but the surface was in my opinion not treated with hammer and punch but with heavy corrosion. The flower is UME no HANA (round petals), and what you see as a hot stamp was probably carefully chiselled out.

 

But others with more competence may see this differently.

 

Hi Jean,

 

Thanks about the kogai. It is very nice and well made. I was very happy to be able to get it.

 

The kinko is made of copper and I really don't think it is a repro although I think it is probably late edo/meiji. The seppa dai does have some faint marks on it and has wear marks on its high points so I do believe it has been mounted at some time even though it may not have been for long. Measurements ar 7.2 x 6.7 cm., 4.0 mm at the mimi and the nakago ana.

 

The Tosho surface is definitely not a product of unintended corrosion. I showed it to Skip Holbrook at the show and he said the surface was worked and as Dave said very likely ishime-ji. If it had suffered that much corrosion, the sukashi would not have been in as good shape. I was having trouble deciding whether or not the "hot stamp" was actually stamped or chiseled. The more I look at it the more I think chiseling is the correct call. Measurements ar 7.1 x 6.9 cm., 3.0 mm at the mimi and 3.6 mm at the nakago ana.

[Ford Hallam]

I'm afraid I have to disagree with regard to the surface of the Tosho style tsuba.

 

To my eye this does in fact look exactly like the result of neglect and rust pitting. The rust has been removed and the piece repatinated but the evidence remains.

 

The easiest clue is in the pierced plum blossoms. Those thin strips exhibit classic corrosion damage and thinning. Have a close look and ask yourself if a smith would put 'tsuchi-mei' in such delicate details. The supposed 'tsuchi-mei' also extends over the edge of the kuchi-beni. This suggests the pitting occurred after the nakago was adjusted to fit a particular blade.

 

And yes, I know I haven't examined the piece in hand but I do know a thing or two about steel, corrosion and texturing the stuff

 

regards,

 

Ford

[Soshin]

Hi Ford H.,

 

I am not questioning your knowledge or expertise. To me the surface texture looks too regular to be corrosion due to neglect. But then again I could be completely wrong because of poor focus of the images in terms of the plate surface. Fred D. can you post new photos with better lighting that are more in focus in terms of the plate surface? Thank you.

[Ford Hallam]

Actually David, it's not at all regular. Examine the ura, top left quadrant, and you'll notice it's significantly less coarse than the rest of the surface.

 

But why would you expect natural corrosion to be irregular anyway? This is merely a consequence of specific situations and conditions. If you leave steel to rust long enough, and it can take as little as a couple of months, it results in a perfectly even and convincing 'ishime-ji' ground. Now imagine scrubbing the loose surface rust off the example posted below and developing a nice dark magnetite based patina. In my opinion a great number of early Tosho and Katchushi guards exhibit exactly this finish. I think there is far too much talk of hammer/punch marks and effects of forging etc. that's based on what people imagine and not on actual empirical evidence.

 

Just as an example here's an image of exactly that, an evenly textured steel plate' Note the very clear indents, which might understandably be mistaken for punch marks under different conditions. This is a feature of steel corrosion. Obviously this example has advanced to a stage where the surface has been completely covered but it's a gradual process that starts out as isolated points being attacked and gradually develops like a rash.

 

 

here's an example of an extreme degree of corrosion. It shows well the sort of textural development that severe corrosion results in.

 

This is a micropictograph that shows how pitting starts. What you can see, the overall 'stonewall' appearance of the surface, is the grain boundaries of the crystals of the steel. Corrosion begins at these boundaries, typically where three or more 'islands' intersect, resulting in tiny voids. The patterns and character of this sort of corrosion can tell us a lot about the structure and nature of the steel. Some of which would probably be counter-intuitive to those who have no background in metallurgy or practical metalwork.

[Marius]

Excellent photographs, thank you Ford

[Ford Hallam]

You're welcome Mariusz

 

Always happy to help explain technical aspects to those who care to learn.

 

And here's a helpful diagram

[Soshin]

Hi Ford H.,

 

Thanks for the information it has been very helpful and is clear how this type of confusion can occur.

[raven2]

Well, this has been a good education and at least it hasn't been an expensive one. Thanks for all the info, Ford. I can see how people could confuse this, esp in the ko-tosho and ko-katchushi tsuba. A lot of them do seem to have that surface. The good thing to me is that I still like the tsuba, repatinated or not. It really is great to be able to get information and clarification from such a great source of knowledge.

[Ford Hallam]

Hi Fred

 

I glad I was able to add something to the pot, so to speak

 

And I think that it's important to keep in mind that while condition is important it's also possible to appreciate and enjoy pieces that are perhaps a bit 'tired'. The corrosion is part of this tsuba's story and recognising it for what it actually is is quite critical in terms of evaluation other pieces in the future. It also allows us to perhaps become more comfortable with the notion of impermanence, a major theme in Japanese Art but one we, in the West, are often at odds with.

[terry8441]

Wow, (I’m a newbie, lol) what a great exchange of information. Being new, and as a result impressed with just about everything, this topic and others like it on this forum are already helping me to better understand just what it is that I’m appreciating and being drawn too in the observation of these pieces.

 

Ford H. what a fantastic quote “It also allows us to perhaps become more comfortable with the notion of impermanence, a major theme in Japanese Art but one we, in the West, are often at odds with.”

 

The tsuba, to me, represents so much. Certainly, as individual pieces of art they hold their own. They are a wonderful reflection of the makers’ craftsmanship and personality. They contain a wealth of information that has the potential to reveal the who, what, when & where of their existence.

Just an awesome balance of form and function; and therein lies what I am drawn to, the function.

The tsuba, protects. The tsuba by itself is to me, incomplete in a way. It’s a bodyguard without a client. A philosophy to which I can relate. Not that I am incomplete- I’m just enjoying a bit of well-deserved rest, lol. But, I do find myself longing for the days gone past from time to time. (the notion of impermanence) As we are all bits of energy and molecules vibrating and resonating in this universe, I wonder if these fine protectors find themselves, in their own way, longing for the sound of the blade returning to the koiguchi. I don’t mind too much seeing one a bit ‘tired’, it’s just time for that well deserved rest.

 

Thank you all for sharing your interests, knowledge, skills and abilities

Terry

[Ken-Hawaii]

It shows well the sort of textural development that severe corrosion results in.

 

As an aside, that surface looks a whole lot like several meteorites I have. But I guess ablation is rather an advanced form of "corrosion"....

 

Ken

[Mantis dude]

I have to ask the question- is corrosion a technique used or just the result of life's abuse? Ford these are the type of pics and info that I as a collector would love to see in a book.