Question about tameshigiri mei

[Blundemo]

If a sword that was previously Suriage was selected for a cutting test, was it a rule that the sword's cut off kiri jiri tip would be reshaped afterwards?

[george trotter]

Branson san,

It is always helpful if you post a pic of your query item, but just to give an opinion, I would say no...it is not usual to reshape the suriage nakago

kiri-jiri at any time. If you have a suriage blade that has later been tested it should still be "as suriage" IMO.

The only "legitimate" re-shaping of a nakago jiri etc that I can think of is if it had later been fitted to a mount that had an "inflexible" form, such as a kyugunto of some type which are of a "set" dimension. An oversize nakago would have to be adjusted to fit this tsuka (rather than the other way round)....I say this as I have seen a shinto blade that had the nakago slightly reshaped to uchi-zori (reverse curve) to fit a (I think Navy) kyugunto tsuka.

Other than that, your nakago jiri should not be reshaped IMO. But, as you know, we can never say never in nihonto, and other members may have examples that prove my opinion incorrect.

Regards,

[Blundemo]

Mr. Trotter,

 

I have no specific sword to show, it's only a question to expand my knowledge. Suriage swords that had their nakago reshaped would mean that it was probably done in Muromachi because suriage laws were not truly settled then. I wanted to know if anyone here knew if suriage swords selected for cutting tests were allowed to have the nakago reshaped or remain with a cut off kiri jiri shape.

[Brian]

There were no rules that suriage swords had to be kiri jiri. It was just simpler that way, and therefore most we see are done in that style.

But sometimes smiths did the shortening and took extra time to finish the nakago in a better shape. So you do find suriage swords with other end shapes.

 

Brian

[george trotter]

Brian is right, there are a number of degrees of finishing and end shapes that are found on suriage and Osuriage...I don't think, in answer to your specific question though, that anything was done "as a rule" purely as a result of a sword being tested.

I suppose though, thinking about it, if a kinzogan inscription was put on concerning the tameshigiri, a degree of re-finishing" was required. This may slightly alter the finish/shape of a previously shortened nakago...whether the tip was altered? well I suppose it could happen...but certainly not a 'rule' or anything.

In the end though, does it really matter, and could we tell anyway?

I am not an expert...just giving my thoughts here,

Hope this helps,

[John A Stuart]

The suriage Yasumichi sword that was sent to Oz with the kinzogan cutting test was kirijiri, no shaping. John