sanjuro

So what are we saying then? it isnt ayasugi (because it certainly looks like it). Or it isnt shinto? If it isnt shinto, then we've missed something in the mei. No?

This very topic was discussed not so long ago on another forum and the general concensus of opinion there after careful deliberation, was to the effect that as otherwise sensible people, we should cease and desist from wanton tsuba tapping as not only did it give non nihonto types the impression that we were slightly silly, but also that it proved nothing. :D The practice was I believe, ultimately proscribed as an aberration, something akin to consulting chicken guts as an augury. (Everybody knows that for a really accurate augury, nothing less than sheep guts will do). Sorry George. But as you suspected, it is an exploded urban myth. Personally however, I still check a new tsuba with this test (but only in private of course).

Sorry Mark. LOL! I think I'll just sit back and let the confusion die down (My confusion, that is).

Sorry guys Lee's question made me read my own post again. My post was supposed to read 'If the tsuba in the pics was obviously cast', not 'The tsuba in the pics was obviously cast'. The pitfalls of writing a post too hastily I'm afraid. Apologies for giving the wrong impression there.

Chuck. The description says the plate is hammered and forged. The tsuba in the pics is obviously cast. I would imagine that such a blatant lie is at least enough to allow you to return the item. (Then again, why should they admit that its cast ?) Be prepared for a refusal though. Your only course of action at the end of the day may be to leave extremely negative feedback. (Not very satisfying, I know.)

Jason. Everybody is tippy toeing around this, so I'll simply make the statement. If you are fond of this tsuba, thats fine. However, there is a difference between patina and rust. What you have on this guard is rust. There is no 'patina' as such that looks like rust. There is a patina that comes from very old oxidisation but it doesnt look like this.

The apprentices often live in the house of the swordsmith or togishi he is apprenticed to. All meals provided and a place to sleep. What more does a man need? :D

Hi Mark I tend to agree with you, but the texture and finish are really very convincing. I've been over it with a powerful magnifying glass and still cant find a casting flash. It's most certainly not the usual casting finish. Its also quite heavy for a cast piece. I think I bought it because it looked so good even though I suspected it was cast. The size is 2 5/8 inches both across and top to bottom. The lacquer.... Well who knows? its worn in places but extremely hard and quite a thin coating. Maybe recent as you suggest.

Whilst I can usually spot a cast from a forged piece of steel, this one has me foxed. I bought it not caring either way, as a display piece only, and because I am rather fond of this shape, also the texture is quite attractive in its own right. (Sometimes I buy for the strangest reasons). Now we are having this discussion, it may be a good example of either a total fake or a decent little tsuba. It feels like steel and there are no casting marks or seams in evidence. On the other hand the nakago is too fresh and clean. The entire tsuba has a coating (Much worn and degraded) of black lacquer of some apparent age. With conflicting indications like this, I dont quite know what to make of it. I dont mind if you pull this example to pieces as a learning excercise, since it serves the purpose for which I bought it.

Like I said before..... If you are a newbie, stay away from ebay until you know a lot more. If you swim with sharks, then expect to be bitten!

5 to 6 years for Swordsmith with a test at the end. Togishi up to ten years. Both work 6 days a week, 10 hours a day. Damn.... I sound like an echo. :D

Hi Yes, I have bought some few items over a period of time with this seller. In answer to your question in regard to the quality of his items. If you go by his descriptions of them, you will find no outright lies. You will also find that not all of the facts are stated. This is true of most ebay sellers, at least the last part. In my own case I have always been sure of exactly what I was buying from him, not entirely regardless of his description, but also not because of his descriptions and claims about the item concerned. By the same token, I can usually identify a fake item and having once done so with any seller I never deal with them again. The owner of the site is very helpful and questions to him I have always found, will get a truthful answer. The trick is knowing what questions to ask. You say that you are a newbie, and thats fine. A small bit of advice if you'll allow me to give it. Stay away from ebay until you know a lot more. Yes its tempting I know, but its the newbies that get roped in with a dud. Even collectors who know a great deal still occasionally get taken for a ride. If this is the sort of item you wish to buy, there are a heap of links on this site to reputable dealers. What you buy from them you can rely upon to be as described with far more confidence than items from an ebay seller. You may pay a little more, but why pay a little less and buy a non genuine or flawed item worth a great deal less than you paid? :D

An observation.... And I guess I'm talking to Brian primarily. I was coasting through some recent posts and questions from newbies and the answers that were being given by reputable and knowledgable members of the board. It occurred to me to ask if anyone is capturing some of this stuff for the FAQ section? (Probably a silly question). What prompted this thought was the general high quality of advice that some of these questions attract. For instance, and I am not singling anyone in particular out, except by chance. The recent and current thread on habaki has drawn some interesting information from Chris Bowen. Other threads also have wrung some interesting and relevant basics out of other esteemed members, quite by chance. All this 'stuff' could be edited into the FAQ section. This has probably been thought of already, right? OK........ Time for me to shut up again.

Edit: Deleted in favour of silence.

Stephen Be careful what you wish for...... Both these guys live in Australia and so do I. If they take it face to face, the place will go up in flames. Mind you..... we could afford to lose the East coast. All it produces is politicians. Nevertheless its time this came to an end. Will someone in moderatorville please lock this thread?

Moss and Simon or Dave or whatever the hell your name is..... Has it occurred to either of you that you are making fools of yourselves in order to make fools of each other? Just the voice of reason........ :D

Yes...... If that's Kitaewari or some type of Tori nokuchi it would be a problem.

Lee Not my choice..... I'm just damned sick of doomsayers and negativity. Its a worthy project and all too easily criticised by those who merely stand and watch. Personal differences dont even come into it. My response would be the same regardless of who made the statement.

Reinhard. Despite the implication that the NMB should set itself up to be the Nihonto Police for newbies, the statement of your own altruism begs the question 'Which one of the required articles detailed above can Brian expect you to submit?' Can you as eloquently provide some basic information and contribute to the solution, as you so vehemently argue the problem?

Brian. I'll be happy to write an article for newbies on "Where do I buy a genuine Japanese sword". PM me with any special instructions or aspects that you want covered, give me about a week, and I'll submit something appropriate.

Stephen. Your point is well taken I am sure, however if at the end of the day the people for whom it is created do not use the FAQ section when they have been pointed to it, then there is no help that anyone can render them. This hobby and passion we all share is built upon study. It is a fact of life that those who will not study will find no joy in nihonto and perhaps soon fall by the wayside. Those who have questions for which there are ready answers will be directed to the source of those answers , be it an article , a reference to a website or publication. The NMB members are still there to answer the questions if they choose or to direct the questioner to the appropriate resource. The rest is up to the individual. Having the resource is the important factor at this stage. How we use it is then a matter of NMB policy.

This is an extremely positive initiative and a worthy pursuit. Let us not poison it with detractors and those who are basically anti everything for their own private and sick little reasons. Brian has risen to the challenge. We at least should support him in turn, and if there is anything we as the membership can do to further the project, it should be our pleasure to assist.

Despite the contentious issues raised by Reinhard, I think the basic premise here is to produce something that can be used as a series of signposts to the newbies rather than a 'bible' (Which itself contains contradictions), of irrefutable information. I would for instance consider information from members such as John Stuart, Richard Stein, Chris Bowen Guido Schiller etc. to be of the highest quality and certainly not contradictory. These are sources that most frequently arise to answer the newbie questions. If one wishes to head off the stream of repetition and its inherent contradictory answers to newbie questions, then to point them at least in the general direction of the information and give them reference to reliable source materials can only be advantageous and encourage them to research the answers for themselves. An FAQ facility whilst it can and should directly give information, is inevitably more likely to produce more questions, since that is the nature of the beast. If that facility also provides information on relevant articles, websites and publications, it invites the person asking the question to search further and provides directional guidance for that personal research. There is no doubt that those inevitable newbie questions will still be posted, but can then be diverted swiftly to the correct area rather than dealt with repetatively.

For all the reasons already given, you could do better. This is an unremarkable piece for a quite high price. Chris has a good point with the mei, too clean, too fresh, compared to the rest of the nakago.

Great idea! The newbies will have easy access to our collective genius :D and the FAQ's would not require repetition in posts. We could actually compile an e book of those questions and the answers that could be downloaded via a link from this site. We may also want to give links to sites that are helpful to newbies eg. Japanese sword index and the like, as well as a bibliography of books that provide information for beginners in Nihonto. We all know its a long road and a steep learning curve when you first 'get the bug'. The mods may groan a bit at this of course, but is that not what we are here for, to share this knowledge? OK...... I'll be quiet now.