Hokke

I dont think I have ever seen nihonto that I would refer to as unacceptable, so I agree with you. The only thing I would "object" to is if you were a pirate selling this piece and did not price it accordingly. I am certain there have instances when flaws like this were marketed as "battle scars" to unsuspecting tourists in this genre. Aside from that, owning any nihonto from 14th century is a fortunate thing, especially for me, since that is by far my favorite era.

Your point is well received with regards to individual freedoms, however, I dont think anyone here has proposed any ownership mandate. If you own an item you are free to do with it as you please. It seems to me the problem arrises if an individual comes to this forum and says "hey everybody, look at the polish I did......I dont need no stinking 6+ year apprenticeship". Because if you accept this level of participation on this forum, it opens the door to a whole host of other content......content UNFOCUSED on nihonto and its preservation as an art form.

Im curious how this topic has devolved into something strictly monetary. Having read this entire thread, a couple of times now, it seems to me that the main points being conveyed are as follows: 1. If you're not planning to learn how to properly restore nihonto traditionally, the majority here recommend you DON'T try. This has NOTHING to do with potentially owning a masterpiece, it's about respect for the art. 2. If you choose to attempt restoration of nihonto through means other than traditional, the majority here will not support your efforts with information on how to do so. 3. If you are looking for political correctness and/or praise for your non-traditional methods, there ARE sites out there where you will find it, but this is not one of them. This of course is my interpretation and I am unaware of any official poll that has determined actual majority opinion here, so please feel free to correct me if I have presumed too much.

I agree as others of said that smaller items like kiridashi or mekuginuki would be more ideal since it wouldn't be limited to just one smith. That of course still leaves the problem of logistics. How many smiths willing to participate for smaller pieces, how many pieces produced and as mentioned before, who is going to represent NMB members for shipping and any potential issues? Many years ago Mr. Martin (in a smaller endeavor than the one listed above) did something similar. He had a run of small mekuginuki, made from tamahagane in the shape of nakago signed by the smith. It's currently buried in the back of my safe and I cant recall the details, but as I remember it was a success in terms of sales distribution. Mr Martin was the one spearheading it and I dont know what % of funds actually went to the smith, but it seems feasible to do something similar and I would certainly be onboard.

Bruce makes a fine point and I agree. There is one looming question that never seems to be answered without sarcasm or defensiveness on this issue. The question is......WHY? I'll come back to this. I am a Gen Xer, arguably that last generation worth a damn when it comes to common sense and understanding the value of a hard days work. The societal mantra of today however, seems to be, buy anything you want and once owned, it's yours to destroy. Technically, this is true, but it certainly speaks volumes about those who adhere to such a concept. That said, there are more reasons than ever to adhere to this philosophy as we live in a world where being provocative can be profitable. Profitable in that people will pay good money to someone unqualified because they think there is a chance they have found a bargain. It's profitable for those who make a living on social media poking the bear on long standing traditions just for views and comments, hoping it will go viral and in turn be profitable in the long term. What I find interesting is that usually when you find DIYers, what you DONT find is passion. However, if you do happen to find what they are ACTUALLY passionate about and apply the same "own it, destroy it" concept, all of a sudden the light bulb goes on. So, back to my initial question, WHY? I am not asking why someone would choose to attempt a polish on nihonto, My question is why would you begin your journey into polishing on nihonto when there are literally hundreds of thousands of modern made blades out there at your disposal to ruin? The answer is always going to be the same, because THEY DONT CARE. DIYers dont care about the history, they dont care about the discipline, and they dont care what any of us think. The world is theirs and we are just living in it and you know what, they have every "right" to feel this way. What they DONT have a right to do is expect any help or guidance on a forum like this where members DO care. I firmly believe that the only thing we can do is abstain from lending any guidance or wisdom even in its most basic forms, which seems to be the case here. Will this stem the problem of DIYers ruining art, even poor quality art, NOPE, but it certainly won't make it easier for them. The issue for many is being able to abstain, assertively. Loosing composure and employing sarcasm or other such snobbery only, IMO, only serves to weaken our community as a whole. The best conversation we can have on DIY polishing, IMO, is NO conversation at all, crickets. No flipping out as Bruce alluded to, no condemnation or other public shaming......just crickets.

Greetings all, While I have only just become an official member of this community, I have been a long time viewer. I am very fortunate to have had the opportunity to mingle in the same circles as those far more knowledgeable than I in all things nihonto. That said, having been a jeweler for over two decades this thread seems as good as any to see my first post. Although I have only worked in precious metals, there may be some similarities when discussing production. I am a custom jeweler, meaning customers bring me images or drawing of jewelry designs and I build them from scratch. Although I leaned how to do this on a completely handmade level during my apprenticeship, I quickly found it was far more advantageous to utilize a CAD/CAM system of production. I say this because technically, while my designs are one of a kind and custom, the items I make are NOT 100% handmade. This now leads into a discussion about value. If I make a ring and the cost to produce it is 4k, I would argue the value of that ring is in the fact that it is one of a kind, made by a competent craftsman, coupled with the sum of its parts. An identical ring made completely by hand where the metal is rolled cut and formed is going to be more expensive, however, will it be more valuable or superior in its construction? I would argue no, for a few reasons that at this point are unimportant. Now let's bring this back to the discussion at hand. Dan's repeated and unrelenting question has persisted through this thread. Is it possible for cast iron tsuba to have been cast in the Edo period. IMO, the answer is yes, however unlikely. I say unlikely, as others have previously, because I believe it would not have been a secret. Casting was not a frowned upon means of production. If casting tsuba was a method being used, I very much believe it would be well documented considering the number of craftsmen that were producing tosogu in that period. I believe it plausible to have been done using a method that would have produced a superior result compared to what we can create today and the recipe for that process was lost. I dont find this likely, but accept it was possible. If I have to play devils advocate, I actually believe more in the idea that has already been proposed in this thread of a possible hybrid method of tsuba manufacture. Perhaps there was a method by which cast iron was cast into blank plates saving the craftsman from having to start from scratch. The only reason why I still find this dubious is because of my experience as a craftsman in my own discipline. As a jeweler, there are items I have made which required basic skills that would seem really time consuming to the layperson. Muscle memory and years of repetitive practice have made these skills quite ordinary and not as time consuming as one may imagine. So with that in mind I have to ask if cast blanks were available, would they have actually been so labor saving that it was beneficial to use them? For me, I would say no. So where does this leave us? The question I have been asking myself is why Dan seems so desperate to have this hypothesis realized? Dan if you are reading this, what is your ultimate goal in this pursuit? When will you have the requisite satisfaction that allows you to move "onward"? Until such a time as you can provide empirical evidence to prove you claim, you have only "faith". Continued posting of anything else other than definitive evidence would seem to be only for the purposes of provocation. You are free to do so of course as this is a public forum, but it does seem as if the horse is well and truly beaten at this point. Nevertheless, I hope you are able to eventually find what you are seeking.