Mikaveli

I'd like to see it 🙂 I think there's value in fully understanding any sword. Whether it's condition issues (what to look out for if you ever buy something expensive), what aspects of the workmanship are considered to have been done well, which (if any) aspects leave room for improvement. I also think it's interesting to explore the "story" of a sword - who could have owned it etc. The "treasures" weren't generally owned by ordinary samurai, and whilst they have there place too, are perhaps less representative of the swords you'd have encountered at the time.

So that's what a non-Juyo sword looks like! 🤣

I wasn't actually sure, the way it was written - but I didn't intend anything personal. I understand the general sentiment you mention. I'm curious as to why there'd be embarrassment? Is there an expectation at those sessions that only certain blades are brought along? Might have been lost in translation, but what did you mean by "wrong opinions"?

One of the things I often hear, is that Juyo winning blades should be the best examples of a smith (so if two excellent blades by one smith are submitted, only one would win)? That being the case, it's _usually_ possible to find ubu examples of prominent shinto smiths. Less so, the older the blade, for various reasons.

I thought describing something as "the worst thing imaginable" was a rather good example of a put down? I don't think there was any bad intention, but it was rather clumsy. I tried to draw attention to that, with an attempt at humour, yes.

They can think what they like - I think it's more down to attitude, and ultimately communication style. Consider: 1. "I recommend collecting koto blades, with a deep sori." 2. "Avoid shinto blades, with a Kanbun era sori, they're crap and not worth collecting" The first is advice, still subjective - but no one should be insulted by someone's preference. The second sentence, is negative, insulting to owners and rather than offered as a passive recommendation, is stated as an assertion of fact. Do these people talk to others like that in real life too? Some forums have a "be nice" policy, that I think a few on this one could learn from.

The difference is offering an opinion, verses a statement of fact. You can freely dislike any den, be uninterested in certain smiths, periods, hamon. You can collect anywhere you want within the field - that's fine. But if someone likes or values something different to you, they're not wrong.

Remember guys, no put downs, but if your sword is unpapered, from the Kanbun period or a shinto suriage, it's the worst thing imaginable... 🤦‍♂️ Shallow sori? Inelegant! Paid less than $2k, clumsy apprentice smith with no skill. Mino den, yikes! So, with that in mind. I'm raising the bar! If you don't own one of the 110 national treasures, your sword is just a junk paperweight. 🙈 But hey, at least we're all the same. 🤣

The sword looks genuine, although there are some condition issues. The tsukamaki is recent, so I'm assuming it's been re-wrapped. Can't see much more from the pictures.

I took that to mean there are no rules to dictate your motivation for owning a Nihonto.

Polish is something for the new collector to be aware of, especially anything described as out of polish or "just needs a polish" (even more so, if given as a remediation route for any visible flaws). To people outside the hobby, "polishing" conveys little more than a polishing cloth and a tin of brasso, or 🙈 a machine polishing wheel! People won't initially realise that "polishing" in Nihonto terms is the grinding, sharpening, sometimes shaping _and_ final polish, using traditional methods. With both a long lead time and high costs (especially if looking at more affordable blades). Very often, before people realise how a modern / non traditional "polish" will damage the blade, and hurt resale value - they want rust gone and their blade shiny... costly mistake, both financially and from a preservation perspective.

There's some truth in that, but to draw from an analogy, consider the car collecting world. There are some, only interested in rare Ferraris, spending millions, and wouldn't even glance at say, a classic Japanese car. For me, I appreciate a Ferrari 250 GTO, and a Mitsubishi GTO, with approximately the same level of interest. I wouldn't buy the Ferrari, because it's well outside of my price range. My argument is, if you're interest isn't wider, perhaps a classic Mini, Lancia Stratos, MGB, Bugatti Veyron, Lotus Elan etc. you're not really a car guy, you'd be well, a snob. That's not saying you have to like everything, but (as with Nihonto), there's different styles, eras, workmanship, showmanship, utility, technology, state of preservation and fame / prestige and ultimately, monetary value. In both fields of collecting, people are well aware of the wallets required to collect in the different areas, but the disparaging/dismissive remarks I often see on this forum sometimes only serves to spoil someone's enjoyment of where they've chosen to collect. Personally, I'm fortunate enough that Juyo blades are attainable - many can't afford that, many can afford much more. But whether you show me your Gunto or Sadamune, I appreciate them for what they are and enjoy people's knowledge and enthusiasm about their collections - and don't need any put downs.

Even then, it's entirely subjective. If someone likes the form of a straighter sword, that's fine - it's fashion, not skill. Later shinshinto produced even straighter swords than Kanbun-era shinto (when kendo became more popular). A rule about "don't collect them" is frankly, nonsense. Just be aware of the demand (and therefore market value) for anything you buy. Again, as above, if anyone would like to offload their out-of-fashion, not to be collected Kotetsu, I'll be happy to accept them. 😂

Just from what's presented, I don't like the shortened shape of the first two. The third, as was mentioned, seems to have more thought put into the reshaping of the nakago. For the fourth one, I don't know if it's just the photo, but from what I can see of the hada / shinogi ridge line, this lacks some refinement, so despite its provenance, I wouldn't buy it (unless suitably affordable). Rayhan mentions an issue with the polish, but I wouldn't have the confidence to see beyond that / take a punt...

So that Kotetsu was a waste of money then... 😂

For most Western learners, Hepburn has been the de-facto romanization standard for a long time. Even then, there's exceptions, based on prior understanding and convention. For example, Tokyo should be Toukyou (as both the vowels are long とうきょう or 東京).

That sounds like a huge overestimation to me. The average Japanese person is said to know perhaps 3000 Kanji (but will typically only know how to write half of that). 4000 is a approximate figure that applies to well educated people. Some university students may know upwards of 6000, but (at least to my knowledge) that's very rare. For the OP, so that they're not completely terrified - after a point, most Kanji are compositions of other Kanji. For example, 木 (tree), 林 (woods), 森 (forest). Also, even in Japan, rarer Kanji is often written with the pronunciation (in Hiragana) written above.

So, where I started was with some of the bigger Japanese dealers, with an online presence - and catering to the Western market somewhat. This meant that the first sword I bought included a modern, put together koshirae, that doesn't really add anything from a connoisseur's perspective. I started with a papered-only policy, meaning just modern NBTHK kanteisho, as a safety net from my ignorance. Nowadays, I'm confident enough in a narrow range of schools / smiths to go it alone. But, if I bought a new smith, I'd still opt for papered. I live a little vicariously through swords I've seen / handled in collections and study meetings. This provides a useful calibration, especially for the ones offered for sale, to see what's being paid for what. So far, no huge clangers, I did buy a cheaper sword once - and initially thought I had a bargain, but over time learned why it was the price it was - so, didn't lose anything and gained some insight. Now very useful for comparison. I even bought one from an online auction, unseen and unpapered! That one got sent to shinsha and got TokuHo, so very happy.

The Nihonto community is a funny thing, on the one hand, we emphasize that we collect "art swords", but in the next breath we're told to accept a previously established order of what's best. It seems the beholder isn't able to choose. So then, rather than quality being subjective, it becomes objective - but all the objective qualities usually relate to utilitarian aspects, which we reject as unimportant to art swords, so the rationale offered only really boils down to a circular "someone else before said so" argument. 🙂 For me, buy what you like, pay what you're prepared to, and don't let other people spoil your enjoyment with their opinion.

As for how, my recommendation would be to get lessons with a native Japanese speaker. Personally I use Italki (it's kinda a online tutor marketplace) - it has a range from community tutors for $5-10 per hour, through to professionals with much more expensive rates. Obviously there's apps like Duolingo - these are good for rote learning of vocabulary and familiarisation. I use a app called Kanji Study for, you guessed it 😂 Textbooks are good too - Minna no Nihonto, Sou Matome, Japanese for Busy People etc - but these are best with a teacher - rather than solo learning. If you have a local language exchange group, they can be awesome - but less useful before you have a basic grasp of the language.

There's good stats around the JLPT levels, where (assuming you're not already familiar with 2000 Kanji), the learning hours are approximately: N5 (beginner) 350-500 hours of study. N4 (basic) 750-900 hours. N3 (intermediate) 1200-1400 hours. N2 (advanced) 2000-2500 N1 (near fluent *) 3500-4000 hours. At N3, you should be able to have decent conversations socially, but won't understand everything at native pace - and you wouldn't be able to study / work in a Japanese-only environment. N2 is about as far as you need grammar wise. Now, do the maths about how much study time you can put in. I do 5 hours or so weekly, and have been for the last 6 years.

The second link is more of what I had in mind (the first is just a Japanese sword in Korean fittings). On the surface (to my untrained eyes), it looks like a fairly low-end machine produced blade? In any case, what's the ball park for something like that? I'm guessing considerably more than an equivalent gunto, from what you've said?

So, kinda off topic, by definition, but I've always fancied a Korean sword in my collection. Mainly because I did / do Korean marital arts. They also do a form of Kenjutsu, but always use reproductions. I don't want a sword to "use", but the only things I've found are Japanese occupation swords, not anything domestic to Korea? Any pointers, to scratch my itch? 🙂

The UK is a small market, but good swords are out there. However, few seem to enter the market aside from estate sales etc. Even then, when a big auction house gets them, no guarantee that they'll (all) stay in the UK.

Another thing the internet has helped with, is knowledge around the care of swords. I know we've all seen abused examples, but for me, soon after my search began, proper care was something emphasized quickly. I only caught the end of the surplus/antiques-store-happening-to-have-a-nihonto period, and whilst there really is some thrill of the find, generally (and especially without knowledge) you're more likely to have encountered damaged, tired or mass produced gunto. These days, the internet allows you to fine-grain search for specific schools, periods, smiths etc. (across a wide variety of price points), which can be a lot of fun.