Dan tsuba

Robert, I think that I have said this before in another thread (but can’t remember which thread!). I have experienced a few of my tsuba actually communicating with me. That is all I will say for now. I know, weird but true!

First to Scogg, Hi Sam (Scogg) I get what you are saying. I also never considered myself a tsuba snob when it comes to this stuff, but maybe I am! Now to Luca (zanilu). You only answered the first line of my post. How about answering the rest of it?

Luca, You are joking, right? I am not "offense and slandering". You want to see put downs, belittling, berating, and ridiculing, then read some of the threads that I have contributed to (or started) and learn what others have said to me! Where were you when other members tried to intimidate, ridicule, berate, and belittle me! I don't remember you saying anything in my defense! My opinion.

Jean, First off, what is with the black presentation of your post? Is that meant to impress me? Well, it didn't work! Next, you have gone off the rails, missed the point, are trying a diversion, and now you are just rambling. You are a tsuba snob. My opinion.

What is wrong with you guys? So, all I stated was “all I would have done is clean it with gun bore cleaner, dipped it in mineral spirits, dryed it off, put a nail in the wall, hung it up and called it good to add to my collection and enjoy!” And I also stated “No way is cleaning a rusted tsuba with gun bore cleaner and then putting it in mineral spirits and wipe it down is going to destroy a 400 year old tsuba! And it will easily survive for another hundred years!” Then I get these responses from various members- “In the first place, preservation has nothing to do with the value of an object. Any antique iron TSUBA will turn into oxide earlier or later, but with a proper protection treatment (which can mean rust-removal and new patination) and good care (e.g. not hanging it on a nail wall...), it can survive more centuries. But that has to do with some understanding of the processes and the necessary responsibility.” “Tsuba are art objects and old artifact that deserve to be treated accordingly. Restoration shall be done properly with proper techniques and tools. Dealing with hundreds of years old artifacts put us in the position not of owner but of keeper. We have the responsibility of taking care of objects that will outlive us to pass them down to future generation.” Also, in that reply was included my statement of “All I need from my tsuba is to survive longer than me. If I have another 15 years left, I would consider myself really lucky” The reply continues “This sentence of yours, Dan, shows that you have completely misunderstood the heart of this hobby! I suggest you to read this thread:” Are these responses from members that make money from restoring tsuba? All I do is clean off my tsuba with a soft toothbrush dipped in gun bore cleaner. Then I take another soft toothbrush dipped in mineral spirits and clean it again. Then I wipe it down and call it good to go. How those tsuba snobs’ statements shown above feel that I am destroying a tsuba is ridiculous! No where in my statement am I saying to polish a tsuba or to take sandpaper to it or to do anything invasive to the piece that may ruin it. You guys are overreacting! Why are you doing that? Are you trying to protect your restoration business? My opinion!

Wow Jean, my opinion you are a tsuba snob. You stated- "but with a proper protection treatment (which can mean rust-removal and new patination) and good care (e.g. not hanging it on a nail....), it can survive more centuries. But that has to do with some understanding of the processes and responsibility." So you think I have no "understanding of the processes and responsibility." You think that me hanging my tsuba on a steel nail on my walls for my enjoyment is not responsible. Come on tsuba snob. Tsuba were mounted on steel tangs of swords, hanging them on my walls with a little steel nail is not going to damage them! Like I said before, you are a tsuba snob! All I need from my tsuba is to survive longer than me. If I have another 15 years left, I would consider myself really lucky. What happens to my tsuba after I pass will not be my problem, it would be up to my heirs to figure that out. You do what you want to with your tsuba, and I will do what I want to with my tsuba to enjoy them while I am stilll around. End of story! My opinion.

Yes Derek, I will have to agree with you on that one. But if I could afford to spend $5,000 to $10,000 U.S. on a tsuba and then another maybe $500 to have it repaired and papered, I wouldn't be able to enjoy it! After spending that much money on a tsuba I would have to place it in my bank safety deposit box! There are those that collect tsuba for enjoyment (like me - and I don't usually spend over $150 U.S. for a tsuba) and then their are those that collect tsuba to sell them and make a profit. Oh well, to each their own.

Hi Derek. You stated- "A great recipe for destroying a 400-year-old precious object. Hope it ended up in the hands of a serious collector who will respect it, have it professionally cleaned and repatinated in the traditional way, and allow it to survive another hundred years." No way is cleaning a rusted tsuba with gun bore cleaner and then putting it in mineral spirits and wipe it down is going to destroy a 400 year old tsuba! And it will easily survive for another hundred years! Now if you want to spend maybe another (I don't know) about $200 to $400 (?) dollars to make an old rusted tsuba in perfect condition again (because that is what a "serioius collector" would do-your statement), well that is up to you or whoever that serious collector is! And don't try to allude to the fact that I don't respect my pieces just because I don't spend hundreds of dollars having them professionally cleaned and repatinated. Who do you think you are?

And there is the difference between collectors! That is my kind of tsuba, old and rusted! If I could have purchased it for under $150 U.S. all I would have done is clean it with gun bore cleaner, dipped it in mineral spirits, dryed it off, put a nail in the wall, hung it up and called it good to add to my collection and enjoy! But that is just me!

I agree with Kanenaga when he stated- "It's not clear to me that these chiselings alter the dimensions of the nakago opening itself." The only thing that alters the dimensions of the nakago-ana is the added sekigane (my opinion). Now, I don't know what that means. But it is interesting.

Anyway, Here is my latest purchase on eBay. It was being sold in the U.S. So, with taxes and shipping it cost me $132.00 U.S. If you know what to look for, I think deals can still be had on eBay. 67mm x 65mm x4mm.

My friend Will, You are not ignorant! We all learn. I hope you have fun with your hobby! Onward!

Hey Will! Your tsuba looks like an authentic (at least) Edo period tsuba. But knowing how the guys on this forum are, some will tell you that you displayed your tsuba the wrong way. Doesn't make any difference to me, but other members will bash you for it! My opinion!

Hi Jinsoo! I really like your tsuba! I don't think it is Namban. No Seigaiha Diaper pattern on the seppa-dai or anywhere else. But then, not all Namban tsuba had that pattern somewhere on the tsuba. It also seems to be very thick for a Namban type tsuba. I mean really, what do I know? Not much! I am just guessing!

Hi Hector, If you download this file (written by a member of this great forum) it may assist you. You have to be signed on to the forum to view it.

Hi Roy, Welcome to this great forum. I do not know enough about tsuba to tell you the Era, School, or who created them. Other much more knowlegable members than I am will more than likely tell you that. But from what I can tell (just guessing here!) about the Era- Number 1 tsuba just doesn't look right to me. Maybe made after the Edo period? Number 2 tsuba looks authentic and Edo. Number 3 tsuba is a plain tsuba, but it also appears to be Edo. Number 4 tsuba appears to be cast iron. Maybe Edo, maybe not. Number 5 tsuba looks authentic and Edo. The 3 tsuba shown in your bottom picture are plain, but may be Edo (that tsuba on the far right looks really thick!). Hey, just my clumsy guesses!

I just watched a video (what I consider super great!) about tsuba at the N.Y. Metropolitan Museum of Art. They show (and explain about) some beautiful tsuba! The enthusiasm shown by the two people that are in that video is infectious! Thanks, Brian, for posting that video! The video can be found here- https://www.militaria.co.za/nmb/topic/54438-nice-video-on-tsuba-from-the-ny-met-adam-savage/

My friend John C. Making a catalog of our tsuba collection for our heirs is a great thing to do and maybe it will let them realize that we had a great, interesting, and educational hobby. Or maybe they won’t care and just want to sell what we collected! Anyway, it won’t be my problem! But I will say that when I published my small books, Amazon KDP was great! I watched some YouTube videos about it. And even as computer illiterate as I am (with my one brain cell!) I figured it out! Amazon KDP doesn’t cost a thing! You only pay (and it is not very much) when you order your proof copy. I really enjoy that you can always edit and add new things to your book without much of a hassle. Onward my friend, to me taking pictures of my tsuba collection!

Thanks my friends for your kind words and support about cataloging my tsuba. So, here is something I was just thinking about (with my one brain cell!). I have self-published two small books using Amazon KDP. Not to sell them or make money, but just to have my research written down in a book type format. Yes, I am old school and prefer reading a book to reading a computer screen. Also, if my computer stops working or I lose my thumb drive, I still have something written down that anyone can access. Now what is cool about Amazon KDP is you can order proof copies to check out your work, and you can always edit or add to your work at any time. Also, Amazon KDP is a print-on-demand system. No minimum number of copies have to be ordered. Once someone orders a book, it is printed at the nearest Amazon KDP facility and sent out. So no major expense has to be invested by me in my catalog of tsuba idea. So, I think I will digitally photograph my collection and describe the tsuba or maybe just show pictures and the price that I think the tsuba are worth, so my heirs will have some clue as to what to sell them for. Then I will send a copy of the book to all my kids (not really kids any more at 43, 49, and 51 - but middle-aged adults!). Then when I pass, they will be coming over to the house with a copy of my book to pick out the tsuba that they want! Maybe they will keep some or sell some (or all!). Hey, but that won’t be up to me anymore!! I think this tsuba catalog book thing is a good idea!

Thanks Mauro, I may have finally found out how to use Google translate (yes, you can teach an old dog new tricks!). So here is your translation shown above- 鐔 寒山拾得図 * tsuba Kanzan Jittoku zu 朧銀銅广地丸形 * oborogin migaki-ji maru-gata 耳打返高彫 * mimi uchikaeshi takabori 金銀色絵象嵌 * kin gin iroe zōgan 銘定常金象嵌 * mei Sadatsune kin-zōgan 昭和甲辰年春吉日 ＊ Shōwa kinoe-tatsu-nen haru kichijitsu [1964, spring, an auspicious day] 寒山誌 ＊ Kanzan shirusu Then Google translates that as shown below- Tsuba (sword guard): Kanzan and Jittoku design Oborogin (frosted silver) and copper ground, round shape Raised relief carving with turned-back edges Gold and silver inlay Signed: Sadatsune (with gold inlay) Shōwa Kinoe-Tatsu year, spring, an auspicious day [1964, spring] Recorded by Kanzan

My good friends, I know that we have been through some major conflicts on some other of my threads on this forum (oh let’s think, like my "Tsuba casting molds?" thread!). But when the end is in sight (come on God give me at least 10 to 15 years!), everything doesn’t matter anymore. Maybe a little too much philosophy! Oh well! This is a great forum. And I will continue to put forward my thoughts on subjects, no matter what kind of backlash I get. Hey, that is just me! Starting tomorrow, I will start taking digital pictures of my collection to start cataloging them! Onward and with respect!

I would like to ask the opinion of members on this subject If I have more than a decade left to live, I will consider myself lucky. Hopefully, I am lucky! Should I try to make a catalog of my meager (about) 200 tsuba collection? As many members know, I collect what many would consider low end tsuba. Is it worth my time to try to catalog my tsuba? I mean who knows, after I pass, they will probably end up in a Goodwill or Salvation Army store because my heirs really have no knowledge about tsuba and won’t care about my collection. Just asking for opinions. e

Hello Mauro, Thanks for the hakogaki pictures and your statement of “The hakogaki is well written and states some perfectly legitimate assumptions about the tsuba. Unfortunately (or rather, thank God), it is not by the Satō Kanzan. Below are others hakogaki, likely written by the same “pseudo-Kanzan,” concerning modern tsuba.” Unfortunately (as much as I have tried!) I can’t read Japanese. Why is everything written about tsuba in Japan always written in Japanese? Ha, ha, ha, ha, etc! Just having a bit of fun! Anyway, I don’t know enough about computer translation to translate the hakogaki. If someone out there can translate them, I think that would be of interest to many members that read this thread. Thanks!

I have always thought that Dr. Lissenden’s thesis on namban tsuba was ahead of its time. As most new subjects written by forward thinking academia individuals usually are. It is a great read, and I refer to it often in my own research.

I can see what everyone is saying about the tsuba shown being modern (not Edo period or before). What do you call tsuba like this? Replicas, forgeries, or fakes? Unfortunately, I feel bad for the collector (or anybody else) that purchases one of these thinking that the tsuba is an original authentic Edo period tsuba. I mean to get ripped off for about $2500 dollars (or more) is not a fun thing. My motto, if I don’t spend a lot I can’t get ripped off for a lot (but that’s just me!).