Steves87

Ahh, the good old Mustache Tsuba! Dale (Spartancrest) will be in shortly to give you the rundown, but unfortunately, this is quite a common cast Tsuba. Your example is one of the better, more well-formed ones though.

Well, I'm commenting after seeing the newer, slightly better pictures, and I realise who I am disagreeing with, regardless, I'm not convinced this is cast. I think this guard has been cleaned from a bad state, and subsequently coated (painted?) with something; hence, making it appear cast. The design is not the same front and back (although close), the nakago ana has been modified on the lower right hand corner (widened), and this is creating most of the visual issues of the seppa dai. I think it is also encroaching on the mei, not the mei encroaching on the ana. The tenzogan looks to not be part of the base material, and I suspect any non-coloured examples are from the coating being missed when they were all otherwise scraped back. This might account for the tenzogan deformations as noted elsewhere. The wave at the 1 to 2 o'clock position on the front, appears to be missing one of the tenzogan dots, leaving a hole. The mimi has decoration which if nothing else, shows signs of hand finished work... and back on the design.... I admit I have not seen every single cast example out there, but I've spent a lot of years modifying literally hundreds of modern dojo used swords with "authentic looking" Tsuba, and I've never come across this design before. Ive fitted many antique cast tsuba, as well as some higher end more modern handmade ones. CAS Hanwei did bring out some Tsuba 10-20 years ago with legitimate tenzogan, but most were dragon themed, and none were signed in modern, or legitimate edo smith, mei. It is always hard appraising through pictures, and being where I am, it's all I can do.... the nearest Tsuba vendor or show, is literally 3000km away

Cool, and yes, no real disagreement here. I think what is throwing me off, is the lack of "construction line". In a couple of places it does appear a possibility, but in other views, I'd swear it is solid. Should there be more definitive lines/joints? Is there a possibility that these are effectively masked somehow, or just a product of photo quality? Not trying to cause issues, I'm just trying to get to grips with my own knowledge, as well as build on my "photo vs in-hand" appraisals.

Very interesting thread, so thank you to all for the valuable input! I must admit, I am a bit "stuck" with the layered construction. I understand the usual Sanmei construction, and I see what Ford is referring to in the first picture, but every other picture appears to be solid construction (nd also at the mimi). This could, either way, be the lighting in the photos showing/or not showing details, and I admit, solid construction makes the fact of the edged Shakudo colouring a bit strange, where it is, but.... For my own piece of mind of seeing or not seeing something, could you please take some pictures of the inner surfaces and outer edges (nakago-ana, hitsu-ana, and mimi)?

Maybe.... I'd wonder if the black pigment leaches once submerged in warm liquid? There are some well known ebay sellers who's Tsuba have this finish look. I know that once submerged, the colour from these seller's guards, does leach away, too. I imagine that solution is far too concentrated for direct use. There are other natural methods to get very mild tannic acid solutions for use after cleaning, and I have seen posts from FH on this forum which mention these. Also, I think Dale has also posted this link in the gun bluing thread

Wangata? Or are my eyes playing tricks? The guard is excellent!

As per my instagram comment, great job, that is excellent... and congratulations!!! I have seen a few other smiths posting similar entries (to the awards ceremony) is there a gallery of all entries we may be able to view? I have only seen excellent guards so far.

I find it odd that the patina of the ategane came off so easily.... if I had to take a guess, I'd say it was not an original patination, or it had been "coated" with something to simulate a shakudo patina. In all my years of "Tsuba cleaning", I have never seen a proper shakudo patina wear off from a light soapy brushing. I like the guard in general, but I personally wouldnt make a comment on anything else based off the photos.

In light of the post from George, I believe this below Tsuba is of the same theme (although not Choshu). Apart from the structure which appears to have the similar Chinese architecture, this guard also has the similar poled structure which in this case, seems to be flying banners. This guard is from the Gary Murtha collection, there are a few more photos of it within his books.

Yep, Artur is reliable and good to deal with... has a high standard of Tsuka too (I didn't know about the injury). His Flickr account https://www.flickr.c..._drogamiecza/albums/ is best to see his stock

Good job! I think it is very important to know what goes into making Tsuba, even the most basic of designs. When I hear people dismissing guards (mostly on the facebook), I wonder if they themselves have ever attempted to manufacture one. The time and effort required is not insignificant, and to dismiss a Tsuba that not only contains someone's skill (regardless of level), but has also lasted the element of time, is disrespectful. Attempting to make Tsuba is also highly educational within the area of recognising fake/cast Tsuba while purchasing. In experimenting with as many techniques as possible, you become aware of what hand made details should look like, and what is/isn't inlayed, but just gilded. A few of my attempts below, not exactly top quality, but all cutting, filing, carving and inlay done by hand.

Well, I generally wouldn't go against the opinion of Grey, who has probably handled thousands of guards over the years, and I also would have said cast based on those pictures, however, I believe there is a very good chance that this is not cast, and just heavily de-conditioned. There are some anomalies within the sukashi, but it isn't consistent with all of them and doesn't appear within the hitsu ana, or nakago ana (which doesn't appear to be modified through mounting). I believe this inner sukashi condition is in line with the general deconditioned state of the Tsuba and it would be odd to clean up some, but not all, at the time of manufacture. The seppa dai area does look a little off in shape, but it isn't the first time a less than perfect, off centre, or odd shaped nakago ana has popped up on a legitimate Tsuba. The odd darkish arch at the top of the seppa dai is likely a shadow from a smaller mis-shaped seppa, and I would guess that this guard has been "cleaned up" at some point, from a much worse state. I have an example of similar design and style which I am about 98% certain is not cast, and this is the main reason for my doubts on the above Tsuba (based on those photos). My example is pretty similar in execution, it does have ten zogan, but otherwise you can see that the two are based on a typical theme, with the fish and waves being similarly shaped and placed, but different enough not to be cast. My stance on the cast debate in other threads is complicated to say the least, and I wont state it, but I do believe the "cast" label is thrown about as incorrectly as the Shoami label is. There are no doubts that cast items have manufacturing faults, but SOME of these can be replicated through general de-condioning (flat surface anomalies, for example).

They do look a little withered. I realise it is not the case, but I like to think it is a message that the wearer and their sword will bring an end to the renewal and optimism that Sakura brings, to one's adversary.

That was great, thank you very much for posting the video. I got quite a lot of new information out of it. I was especially interested to hear about the carved bone souvenirs.

Oh, I remember this thread! I finally have a guard to contribute towards it

we need a "deal of the decade" section, just so this can be on top!

I was going to bid on that one (original post), seeing your bid already there put me off! Congratulations on getting it, it is a real winner. I'm not in the market right now, but I thought the forum might be interested in this guard below. The pictures are a little sub par, but it otherwise looks ok (just one dubious spoke). Hopefully a forum member can put it to a good home https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/235026837329?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=705-154756-20017-0&ssspo=pNiwG9EHS5i&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=OjC70kueRUa&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

Nice example there, I have not seen that artwork before, thank you for sharing!

Wow, thanks Piers, I've been looking in the wrong areas by the looks of it. Thank you for the amour example, it also looks like netsuki are good items to showcase the 'oddity'

Thanks Piers, I did not know that, and any search I did (especially for Ukiyo-e prints) never gave any other examples. Would you happen to have an example of the armour with the ruffs?

Ah! Excellent, thanks Dale! That actually makes sense, and the neck ruff? Well maybe that just goes along with the theme??.... who expects a Japanese person to be wearing an Elizabethan piece of clothing? Expect the unexpected!

Hello! I am quite intrigued by this Soten tsuba, there is a character on the left which appears to be wearing a ruff collar. As per true Soten style, the reverse side of the guard depicts the back-end of the front scene, and the ruff collar is still seen. I have just assumed this may be some odd Dutch influence, but does anyone know if the adoption of a ruff was common in edo Japan? I don't know what the story is, although I thought that maybe the character on the right is Daikoku with a bag (which seems to be connected to the horseback Samurai?) I'd like to hear others opinions on this if possible?

Link works, thanks for that! I wish I could read it, and underatand it! All I could gather was they are all made out of iron, with just traces of other elements? Except the Tanaka which had a high copper value? Am I reading those results correctly?

They do pop up quite a lot on ebay, mostly heavily corroded examples. But like Dale has shown, there are a lot of broken ones, too. Jean's idea about a museum is a good one, however, I would suspect most modern museum's won't take a lot of donor acquisitions these days due to space and policy reasons (like 90%). If they did take these examples, then 'weeding' or de-selecton policies would make it difficult to let them go. Donor material is especially hard as they can have certain conditions put on them at the point of acquisition... like having to be returned to the donor. If you are in Japan, are there not such examples at their antiquities markets? The last time I was in Japan, I found it hard to buy decent quality at the markets (maybe just the markets I stumbled across?) As for your yes or no question? My opinion is yes, but be cautious with which ones, maybe consult with at least two to three other collectors for agreeable suitable sacrificial candidates. And! ensure you share the knowledgeable results with the community.

Married Daisho? the red guy on your shoulder agrees.... you should probably go for it!