Bryce

G'day Jacques, I don't understand your question. You are asking me what characteristics they have in common, when they have so many that most people can't tell their blades apart? Is this a language thing? Is there going to be a punchline? Is this like "Two Gassan smiths walk into a bar .........". Adam, that looks like a nice blade. It is a pity that Eric doesn't post some better photos of the hada and hamon. Cheers, Bryce

Actually, maybe this is a better way of showing the comparison. I replaced Jacques oshigata, with the photo of a Gassan Sadakatsu katana dated Taisho 10 (1921). Cheers, Bryce

G'day Jacques, To add to what Adam said about Roger and Hizento mei, most examples of Gassan Sadakazu/Sadakatsu mei are easy to pick, but there are a small number where it isn't immediately obvious. We are dealing with humans here, not machines, so there is variation. There is no single thing that differentiates or unites the two, it is the sum total of a large number of characteristics. If I use the oshigata that Jacques posted, which I have already said was signed by Sadakatsu and sandwich between it and another Sadakatsu mei one actually signed by Sadakazu, you can see the differences. So Sadakazu in the middle, Sadakatsu each side. Cheers, Bryce

G'day Jacques and David, I don't own any Fujishiro books. Do you accept that it is possible to recognise a person's handwriting? It is exactly the same with nihonto mei. My sole nihonto focus now is pretty much just Gassan Sadakazu and Gassan Sadakatsu. I look at examples of their blades nearly every day and have done so now for about 5 years. To me, the fact that the oshigata Jacques posted is of a blade signed by Sadakatsu for his father, rather than signed by Sadakazu himself is as obvious to me as the difference between night and day. I have a hard time believing you guys can't see it as well. Previously I have posted about a blade signed Gassan Sadayoshi, which has a Tanobe sayagaki, stating it is actually a work by Sadakazu and also a blade signed Sadakazu, with a Tanobe sayagaki stating it is actually a work by Sadakatsu. I shouldn't say daimei are accepted as shoshin, they actually are shoshin. Cheers, Bryce

G'day David, It isn't an argument it is a simple fact. Daimei/daisaku swords are accepted as shoshin. Cheers, Bryce

G'day Jacques, The oshigata above is a daimei by Gassan Sadakatsu for his father Sadakazu. In regards to every mei being identical, here is a collage I put together of eight Sadakazu tanto mei done in this same style, all around the same time. All of these blades are papered to Sadakazu. Are they identical - definitely not. Cheers, Bryce

G'day Guys, Great discussion. Below I have included the other photo of the mei that Gordon posted. You can see it gives a different perspective of the kanji. As I said earlier, we are looking at a fuzzy photo of a rusted nakago, so we can't be sure that what we are seeing is an accurate picture of the mei. In regard to the missing tagane in the "san" kanji, both Gassan Sadakazu and his son Sadakatsu are a little "cavalier" in their use of them. They add them or not depending on whim. Remember, this is all chiseled by hand, so no two mei are exactly the same. You have to look at the way the kanji are constructed, rather than looking for exactly, identical copies. Cheers, Bryce PS Jacques in regard to the rust, where I live steel can get that rusty in under a year, let alone 150 years.

G'day Dee, I would say the mei is well within the limits of variability you see in Gassan Sadakazu's work, especially when you consider the low resolution photo of the rusty nakago we are working with. This tanto is definitely worthy of a closer look. The horimono looks strange, because at some point, someone has taken to the blade with a sander and worn it down. It is hard to say from these photos what damage has been done and how much value is left in the blade, but I stand by my opinion that this tanto could very well be shoshin. Jacques are you saying that in general Gassan Sadakazu's mei have some peculiarities or just this particular example we are looking at in this thread? Cheers, Bryce

G'day Jacques, I am sorry mate, I am still not sure what it is you are asking. On an impersonal form of communication like this it is difficult to grasp subtle nuances. You will have to use more words or give me a hint. Cheers, Bryce

I should also add that the tanto in this thread is suriage thru the top of the kokuin. Cheers, Bryce

G'day Jacques, I am not sure what you are asking. Below is a photo of a comparison of two tanto from Gassan Sadakazu from the early Meji period. Both of these have been papered by the NBTHK. During the early Meiji Period you find his tanto with two distinctly different mei and kokuin. For whatever reason, it seems he signed in these two distinctly different styles. One possible explanation is that the tanto on the right was signed by one of his students. The tanto in this thread looks very similar to the right hand one. As I said, the NBTHK paper these and the work in these blades looks like Gassan work. Cheers, Bryce

G'day Gordon, Some how I missed this thread. I am a big fan of the Gassan smiths and have looked at a lot of Gassan Sadakazu mei over the years. Your tanto could easily be a legit one by Gassan Sadakazu from around the early Meiji period (around 1870). Do you have any updates on this for us? Have you shown it to anyone knowledgeable? Cheers, Bryce

G'day Guys, As many of you may be aware, I am a bit of a Gassan tragic. Is there any way I can get a copy of the Gassan presentation or any notes from it? Cheers, Bryce

Thanks Guys, Interesting, it isn't something that I have paid attention to in the past. Cheers, Bryce

G'day Marzio, Yeah obviously from the same workshop. Is your habaki stamped as well? What is the blade? Most seem to be older blades. Cheers, Bryce

Fair point John, I have a Kojima Kanemichi blade in my collection and have spent a fair bit of time looking at other war period Kanemichi blades. Yes you see a lot of variation in the mei, but none of them kave a nakago jiri that looks like the blade in this thread. They just don't have straight edges like that. Cheers, Bryce

G'day Jean, You could easily mistake it for ubu, but the nakago jiri of Kanemichi blades are never that shape. They are always some version of this below. Cheers, Bryce

Yeah, must have been shortened slightly to fit that koshirae. Cheers, Bryce

G'day Marcin, Thanks for that. Definitely Kanemichi, but there is something odd about the nakago jiri. Maybe it has been shortened slightly or maybe it was just made that way. Unfortunately none of your new photos show the nakago jiri. Cheers, Bryce

This is what I am referring to. Cheers, Bryce

G'day Marcin, Is there any chance you can post a good photo of the nakago showing the complete mei and nakago jiri? I ask this because from your photo it looks like the nakago jiri is a very unusual shape for Kojima Kanemichi. I wonder if it may actually be by Kanesane? Cheers, Bryce

C'mon Bruce, No more photos, what were you thinking? Did you see the nakago? Date? Looks like type 94 koshirae. As this sword is Gassan Sadakatsu and not Sadakazu, it would have been better over in the Gassan Family thread. Thanks for posting it Bruce. Cheers, Bryce

G'day Alexi, I have handled a few of Gassan Sadakatsu's blades and I would describe them as typically having a wide shinogi rather than a high shinogi. I have no idea how this translates to durability. I doubt that many have ever been used for test cutting. Cheers, Bryce

G'day Steve, It is a showato, so probably oil quenched, but the photos aren't good enough to tell for certain. I disagree with Mal about the mounts, they are type 98, nothing suggests type 94 to me. Cheers, Bryce

G'day Guys, I think the Suya Shoten tsuba and two seppa may be replacements. The left hand seppa with 377 serial number and made for a rounded nakago mune may be original. Cheers, Bryce