IanB

All, At last the Home office have put out a press release with regard to the ban. Paraphrasing, and please remember it only for the press, the results of their consultation are as follows: Replica 'samurai swords' will be added to the prohibited weapons list. When the act comes into force, buying, selling or hiring these objects will incur a penalty of up to 6 months in prison and a maximum fine of £5000. Carrying a samurai sword in public is already an offence that could result in up to 4 years in prison. Genuine antique swords are exempt from the ban as are those made in Japan up to 1953, or subsequently by a Japanese registered swordsmith. Also exempt are those replicas used in martial arts or for similar purposes. Thus I think that all of the lobbying done by everyone has had the desired effect. I did notice in a newspaper that there was to be a requirement that they should be kept under lock and key, but I see no problem there. What does slightly concern me is the carrying situation. There does need to be a qualification, that I am sure will be added, to the effect that real swords can be transported provided they are suitably wrapped and not available for immediate use. Can I personally thank all who have contributed in this saga for their efforts to ensure we can continue with our wonderful hobby. Ian

Dino, Many years ago a dear old friend thought he would save money by investing in a winchester (2.5 litres) of clove oil B.P. for use on a local museum's collection of some 120 swords. This is pure distilled clove oil to British Pharamcutical standard. When applied all looked well but the smell was rather overpowering. However, after a month or so the oil oxidized and turned bright purple! It came off again with more oil but the effect could be a bit of a surprise unless you knew what to expect. Ian

All, I have just received an email from Steve Smith of The Northern ToKen, UK to say that Jonathan Batt of the Home Office has been in touch with him and that the results of the consultation on the sword ban will be published on the 12th of December. Hard copies will be sent to those being more directly involved with the process. Ian

Paul, I don't think it was a rank thing - just prefereence. The Stibbert one looks like a rich Edo period piece whereas that in the Armouries is much more austere and could be late Momoyama / very early Edo. They are so rare I suspect they were not particularly practical. Its a nice idea that the odoshige gets protected but in reality you could only cut a small proportion of the lacing on a conventional shikoro with a single blow. Ian

Paul, Whilst lying abed last night it came to me that the concealed lacing may well be described as ura-odoshi shikoro or some such phrase. Ian

Piers, Your three-barreled Chinese gun may in fact be Korean. I bought one for the Royal Armouries collection that had belonged to a previous curator. It had appeared in several gun books as an example of a very early Chinese firearm. Since I could not attend the sale it was a telephone bid that won it, together with a fabulous Turkish bullet mould and other oddments. When it arrived, the shock! It was only about 8" long including the socket. I then found an illustration of such a gun, on a short stick, being carried by a Korean horseman. Apparently the small guns were used for signalling. Ian

Paul, Ah the Stibbert. Last time I went the Japanese section was closed for restoration. Italy's immigration control have a special routine in their software that flashes a message to all the arms and armour museums in the country to close as my passport is checked. A couple of months ago I was in Torino and passed by the Artillery Museum which has a chain across the entrance. A guy explained with much waving of arms that 'since it was Monday . . . and had it been any other day . . regretfully it was closed for cleaning'. I am assured it hasn't opened for 34 years. I won't give up on the shikoro. If need be I will contact friends in Japan. Ian

Paul, I hang my head in shame about your first query. I just don't know. The usual bible on all matters armour - Sasama's Nihon Katchu Bugu Jiten is silent on shikoro laced internally as indeed are books written by Yamagishi Sensei. I have searched all my likely books and a pile of Japanese museum catalogues and failed to find another example that might have named the beast. There is another example in the Royal Armouries collection, on a captured Korean helmet bowl. Your second query is possibly easier. What you illustrate is a combination of mengu and guruwa. I suppose the combination would be described as a guruwa tare. Ian

Carlo, Yes guilty. I am undone! Horo were originally an arrow defence and only later were used as an alternative to sashimono. Gunyoki shows how it was originally just a rectangle of cloth tied to the watagami of the armour and to the waist. As you rode it filled with air and balloned out. It was only later that a wicker or baleen structure was put inside to fill it out when you were stood. I have an image of a scroll of Tokugawa insignia that shows 12 in different colours and designs for different officers. Other armies had similar. There is a good depiction of a black one amongst the Takeda forces on the Nagashino screen. Ian

All, See: Needham J, Science and Civilisation in China, Vol5, Part7 The Gunpowder Epic, Cambridge University Press, Cambridge, 1986, for a fully referenced, comprehensive acount of early Chinese and Japanese use of gunpowder and guns. He also discusses tetsubo as used in the Mongol Invasion, but this was before some were actually found in Hataka Bay. As for the bajo zutsu, they are interesting and I too would love to own one, but think for a moment how useless a matchlock pistol really is. What do you do with the match until you need it for the fast draw? Ian

John, Thanks for the pictures. Calgary have some nice items, which I have never seen in the flesh but have always wanted to. Pity the kuwagata on the omodaka laced do-maru are wrong way round. It is nice to see the labelling of parts diagram that was originally used by H. Russell-Robinson for a Royal Armouries exhibition in the 1960's is still going strong. Ian

John, I know about Stephen's writings. We go back a very long way togethr and he lives only a few miles away. I include a couple of pictures from the Nagashino screen to show what I mean. These are from two copies in Nagoya, Tokugawa Art Museum. You will see that this is Tokugawa Ieyasu arriving and there are two guys with the diagonal sashimono - one striped and one yellow in each case (although the stripes are different colours). Note how the pole starts just behind the right hip and how the tsukai ban's sashimono is clearly vertical. It looks to me as if the guy with the more square flag with the gold sun might also be on the slant. Ian

John, Very, very nice work. Information like this is a gold mine. Perhaps you can help me with a question that has been puzzling me for a year or two. On the famous Nagashino screen (I have only had my hands on the Osaka Castle one) there are scenes of the major players arriving on the battlefield with their attendants. In each case one such attendant has a long narrow sashimono fitted diagonally on the back and sticking up over the left shoulder. I have seen two armours with pairs of eyelets in the backplate, one at the centre of the waist and the other over the left shoulder blade that might have been for such a sashimono. Any ideas of what function these guys had? Ian

All, I fully agree that a kogai is for cleaning ears, scratching the head and helping to re-dress the hair after taking off a helmet. Warikogai seem to come into fashion about the same time as the heavily pomaded hairstyles. Interestingly, the kanamono half way down the rear edge of o-sode is called a kogai kanamono (although shaped more like a kozuka). This at least suggests kogai have been around for quite a long time, since o-sode rather went out in the Muromachi. Most of the bashin I've seen in swords were in tanto and rather diminutive little things but sharp edged. And yes, most had inome at the top end. John, you are right about bleeding and fleams. You come across plenty of old vetinary ones that look like a folding pocket knife. I suppose that is their use. The idea of handling a head with one stuck in the ear is rather improbable. Gunyoki by the way shows heads for display being held in the hands with a label tied onto the hair. Nice touch! Ian

All, I have a copy of Gunyoki and bashin are not included, in the illustrations at least. Years ago whilst cataloguing the Royal Armouries' Japanese collection I came across a strange item I had never encountered before. It was an iron rod, about a foot long, with a rounded end and at the other what looked like an enlarged armour piercing arrowhead - all forged out of the bar with the head end polished. My first though was that it was some form of trial piece of arrowhead forging. It certainly wasn't what a previous curator thought - a crossbow bolt. It ended up in the 'items to be worried about later' box for a few months. I then found an illustration of the self same item in a Japanese dealer's catalogue (don't ask i couldn't remember if I tried) labelled as a bashin. Clearly this was not a sword accessory but a tool. I have read that these items are for bleeding horses (?) or for exciting their muscles (?). I think I'd get excited if somebody started stabbing me with one. My view of horses is that they have a brain the size of a walnut and no brake pedal. Why would you want to stab them? They are difficult enough to control as it is. Handling heads makes far more sense. Ian

Henry, I would have loved to see that exhibition. I curated one on his life here in the UK, in conjuction with Nikko Toshogu Shrine a couple of years ago. It was not of course on the scale of this, but some impressive items appeared nevertheless. What stirred me most was Ieyasu's umajirushi - his golden fan standard that was hoisted at all of his battles. What fascinated me was that it folded up like a real fan! On the subject of Tokugawa wealth, I was wandering around Nikko with one of the priests and remarked that the cost must have nearly bankrupted Japan. He just smiled and commented it was paid for out of the petty cash. In their archives they have the wage slips of everyone involved in the shrine's construction, stating who made what and how much it cost. In total over 4.5 million people played a part in its construction. Now that's a work force. Ian

Thanks for that John, it seems like you have solved the problem. It has been a good thread. I'll just throw one other observation into the works. In 1611 Ieyasu gave three armours to the Dutch destined for Maurits van Nassau. One of these is depicted in a painting in 1650 0r 1651 by Jacob van Campan for the Oranjezaal of the Huis ten Bosch in the Hague. In the late 18th century the Dutch collection was captured by the French who moved this armour and another to Paris. They are now in the Musee de l'Armee. This armour has both the kirimon and the kikumon slightly overlapping each other in gold lacquer on the fukigayeshi. Obviously one of Hideyoshi's personal armours, or one he gave to someone, perhaps Ieyasu. There is also another with just the kirimon but with the 8 stars around a larger central star at each end of the peak. This may well be yet another using the kirimon. Ian

Thanks John Ian

John, No this is not one of the retainers / kagamusha armours. They are normally red/white/blue laced, but I have a vague memory of seeing one in red/white/brown. The one you show is I think one I borrowed from Osaka for an exhibition. It was a do-maru with a lot of tosei features and featured the kikumon and kirimon. The soft metal rivets had that stylised 3-5-3 kirimon you see so often on tsuba. Ian

All, Here at last are the promised images. Note that the Hideyoshi is one of 12 surviving ones - 9 complete and 2 incomplete in Japan and that in Austria. Tokugawa Art Museum insist they are from the effects of Ieyasu whilst Osaka Castle Musuem say they were Hideyoshi's retainers. The Takeda armour is displayed at the Tower of London and was heavily restored in the 1970's. The mogami haramaki was sent by Ieyasu to Philip III who sold it to the Duke of Infantado. It was wrongly relaced in the 19th century by the staff at the Tower of London. Ian

All, Oops stupid slip - Nagashino was 1575 not 1582 - sorry Ian

All, Paul, Yes that is the kamon. John, I fully realise that the timings here raise questions and have said so in the article in the Royal Armouries' Journal. The Tensho mission sailed early in 1582 but I believe was held up somewhat by bad weather. It was probably nearer June or July before they left Japanese waters. Shortly after Nobunaga was killed by Akechi. Hideyoshi was at that time laying siege to a Mori castle and somehow managed to obtain a truce so that he could dash off to avenge Nobunaga - which he did in three days. I can make no definite assertions since I have no access to prime sources. What I do know is the armour in Ambras is exactly the same as the series supposedly made for Hideyoshi. Nagoya (Tokugawa Art Museum)have one and maintain this set of armours was made for branch members of the Tokugawa family. Since we know one of the set was sent to Europe in 1582 I somehow doubt that. Ieyasu was busy dusting up the Takeda at Nagashino in 1582. If it was Tokugawa it would have the aoimon that he adopted in 1566 when he changed his name from Matsudaira. I have also found evidence (in the Date family documents) that it was Ieyasu who sent the armours to Spain with Hasekura and that the whole affair was Tokugawa inspired. On Hasekura's return Date Masamune was roundly castigated by the shogun for sending his vassal into the heart of catholic power. Date wrote back pointing out that the Tokugawa had not only suggested the idea, through their admiral Mukai Shogen, but had funded the building of the ship, written letters to foreign kings and the pope, had provided the armour as gifts and had even sent samurai along as escorts. There is another factor that might be at play with these gifts (not my idea but a collegues). I am fairly sure, and still trying to find obscure kamon to prove it, that all of these armours given by the Tokugawa were captured. Might the kami of the slain enemy remain with the armour? It was after all a very personal possession. If so, giving the armour to a foreigner who would take it the other side of the world might be seen as a way of getting rid of the kami. I still haven't forgotten the pictures but I'm a bit under pressure at the moment. Ian

John, The first was you quote is from a bit of publicity written by me for an exhibition I curated. The scond refers to the Keicho missio n by Hasekura. Re-reading my previous post I realise I misled slightly. The Takeda Kastuyori armour was one of the two given to King James. It had fallen into such disrepair by the 1970's that it was sent back to Japan where it received a rather drastic refurbishment. The only decently preserved kamon remaining is under the left arm. This is the usual Takeda 4 petalled flower but with ken between the petals. Shingen introduced the kamon for in-house use but the armour is far too slim for him. I have also found a portrait of Katsuyori wearing the same kamon, hence my attribution. The armour I was refering to from Guadalajara (in Spain not Mexico) is one of three sold to the Duke by Philip III. One was lifted by the French in the peninsular wars and was given to a M. Talma, an actor, probably by Napoleon. When Talma died it was sold in a sale of his effects. It then appears in another 19th C. auction in Paris before dropping out of view amongst the armours coming in from Japan. The other two from Guadalajara were bought by Eusebio Zuloaga a keeper at the Real armeria in Madrid. One was sold in Paris in 1838 (and was probably bought by the Duke of Savoy) the second in London and bought by the Royal Armouries as the armour of a Moor of Granada. This is the one we still have - in fact a mogami haramaki of about 1580-90 belonging to the Shimazu family. This we are now researching and finding by x-rays that the steel under the lacquer is not too good and much of it re-used. I have yet to trace a suitable Shimazu as its original owner but Yoshihiro who fought at Seki ga Hara is the best bet so far. Unlike most of the diplomatic armours which are courtly and mostly made by Iwai Yosaemon of Nara, this is a real fighting armour and has the scars to prove it. I will try and post pics asap. Ian

John, I wonder if this is the place to discuss this topic since it is really about armour and not swords - but what the heck. Yes, the armours, five of them to my reckoning, were a gift to Philip II. Two of them he kept in his treasure house and I have a photocopy of the order to move them to the Real Armeria on his death. In that it states they were put with the other 'Chinese' armours in a cupboard (or alcove). You say that there were opportunities for armours to travel to Europe prior to this - I'm not sure. I know about the gift from Arima to the young king of Portugal and of an armour and a naginata to the governor of Goa (both mentioned by Boxer) but I can find no other. Oda did send the pope a screen but there is no record he sent anyone a gift of swords or armour. Coupled with the Tensho gift of 5 armours (and I think swords and harness) was the Keicho mission by Hasekura Rokuemon Tsunenaga when another 5 armours landed in Spain (and where the mayor of Saville was given a daisho) Of these 2 went to Prague, 2 to Copenhagen and 3 to the Duke of Infantado at Guadalajara. The remaining 3 were burnt in a fire in Madrid in the 1800's. There were 3 given to the Dutch, 2 to James I of England and 2 to France. John Saris who negociated the trading treaty for England was given an armour by Matsuura Hoin and Cox was given one by Tokugawa Hidetada. Both these last two are missing as is a Dutch one. There was one in Turin (given I think by Hasekura) in the late 19th century but it now seems missing. That's the lot. The Royal Armouries have 3 (the two James armours and one from Guadalajara). The latter I have just proved to have been Takeda Katsuyori's. Almost all in fact battlefield recoveries, not specially made as has been supposed. Ian

John, The diplomatic gift armours to Europe is a topic I've been researching on and off for 15 or 20 years. In total about 16 armours were brought or sent to Europe during the late 16th and early 17th century (I'm still uncertain about 1 that was in the armoury of the Duke of Piedmont and Savoy in the 19th century). The two armours sold to Rudolph II of Bohemia by Philip III of Spain was moved to Brussels in the late 17th century and then to Schloss Ambras in Austria in the 19th century where they still are. The Hideyoshi armour is one of the series Hideyoshi had made for his kagamusha - laced in red white and blue with kirimon on the gessan and elsewhere. Since it was in Prague in 1607 it must have entered Europe with the Tensho mission to Spain. There is a picture of it in Kunsthistorisches Museum 1981, Sammlungen Schloss Ambras, Die Rustkammer plate 31, 1982, Vienna. There are also other Toyotomi armours in Paris, two of which were given to Moritz of Nassau in 1611 (Nachod 1897, Dei Beziehungen der Niederlandischen Ostindischen Kompanie zu Japan im seibzehnten Jarhundert, Leipzig) and one appears in a painting in the Hague. This has both kikumon and kirimon on the fukigayeshi. Ian