Peter Bleed

Dear Friends, I fear that this effort may get complex, but... for good reason I today scanned and made dense pdf's of an obscure 1966 article on "Japanese treasure swords" that was published in SAGA a real pulp men's magazine. I find this article interesting for a couple of reasons. It is a rarity. It documents the (sorry) state of knowledge that was available to the first generation of post-War collectors, and it has some stuff on lost National Treasures. The data presented here has been made completely obsolete by information presented on this forum, but I think it might be of historical interest to sword otoku. The following dropbox has some 8 pdf's. That means they require something like adobe to view. And they are a bit slow so you have to be patient The file 'Complete Portfolio.pdf' (101.5 MB) is available for download at < http://dropbox.unl.edu/uploads/20120927 ... tfolio.pdf > for the next 14 days. It will be removed after Thursday, September 27, 2012. I hope this works and that it is of some interest. Peter

Tobais, One of the great disappointments of my life has to be that I was NOT in the Archaeology Lab of Tohoku University when they excavated Masamune's tomb ay Zuihoden. I was there just before that project and returned just after, but I missed the event and actually heard little about it. The work was over seen by Ito Nobuo and supervised by Michio Okamura. I have seen the report, but do not own one and believe that they are hard to get. This is the ref. I think the work was done in about 1972 so tere may not be lots of video. Ito, Nobuo (ed.) Zuiho-den, the Tomb and the Relics of Date Masamune (Zuiho-den Date Masamune no haka to sono ihin), 　Society for the reconstruction of Zuiho-den, 1979 (In Japanese) Best of luck, Peter

Chris and All, Please let me contribute - bulk if not information - to this interesting thread. As a collector of Ainu cutlery, I have often been shown rustic short swords like this one. They tend to have plain wood saya/tsuka, often they have roughly finished antler fittings, and they almost invariably have rattan wrapping around various parts of the tsuka and saya. Often they have NO metal kodogu, altho they tend to look "Japanese." They do NOT have the kinds of carved embellishments that are typical of Ainu knives and swords - brackets , cross-hatched "fish scale designs, and family mon. For that last reason, I am sure that these are NOT Ainu. These swords are essentially unlike anything I have seen in publications or museum displays on the Ainu. So if they are not Ainu, what they might be? My guess is that these swords were made in Japan, for use by the "MATAGI" who were specialized, rustic folks who survived as hunters and woodsmen. These are the guys who used those rustic matchlocks and non-samurai shooting kits that we see from time to time. These are almost always shoto that seem to have been used for lots of real world tasks. They're beat up -- "cowboy'd" as my western gun collecting friends describe well used firearms. So, my vote is that this short sword is a re-purposed Japanese blade, fitted out in Japan, for a non-samurai people, but NOT for or by the Ainu. Peter

It is certainly a heavily worn and reshaped kogatana, but I am not sure it should be called 'worn out". I've seen heavily reworked blades like this in use on mounted swords. These things seem to happen, tho I can't say why. I'd count it a usable piece. Peter

Friends, Is there anyone in the US who re-laces and reconstructs kabuto shikoro? I looked this morning at a nice - not great - old kabuto with a totally detached shikoro. The hachi is unsigned and "old," but I think not really worth the investment that would be involve in sending it to Japan. Any suggestions? Peter

I think this discussion is being too heavily influenced by the cleaned nakago. Who was making "mino tanto" in Shinto times? I'd vote for an intentionally 'old' looking shinshinto. But depending on how much age is put on the tang when it is repatinated (and it will be!) late koto could be reasonable. Peter

Friends, I tried last night to post the scant information on Kunimitsu that is in the Sendai meikan, but it failed to go thru. Recent posts have made most of what I could add redundant, but... The Meikan shows a rubbing like the one present here. It is identified as by the son of the first Kunimitsu who was a tsunet of YOSHIMTSU of Mito. The second generation Kunimitsu died at the age of 67 in Showa 43. The first generation worked from Meiji, thru Taisho, and into Showa times. Both generations seem to have worked in Yamato tradition with gonome. Peter

Brian, You have received a wide range of opinions - - and given us all an interesting ride. I'll side with Ron Hartman - dahhh - I would bet heavily that this is a legit signature. Like Ron, I've owned a shodai Yasuhiro and I have seen a bunch more. They are not uncommon and from my experience rather varied. It is also important to recall that there were a couple of generations. My guess is that this blade was made by the 3rd generation. That kizu just behind the yokote worries me. And I agree that this blade would be within Dave Hofhine's range. Peter

David, You have treated us to a very interesting discussion. I appreciate the insights that have been shared. The positive power of the forum is truly impressive. Thank y9ou all. My vote - for what it might be worth, ie 'not much' - is that this is NOT a cast guard. Seeing groups of similar fittings helps us understand how fittings were created and produced. Both the people who made kodogu and the men who bought and wore them LIKED regularity. This tsuba may be a piece that conformed to an established design. It might even be "school work." But I see rather pleasant treatment in the surface details. Peter

Peter, I think you have a couple of interesting small tsuba. I'll let others speak to the small sukashi guard, altho is seems to have had an interesting history. Somebody liked it. The other tsuba is certainly "namban" but smaller than any I have even seen. It fits in the category because of the embellished seppa-dai and the paired dragons. There certainly are lots of cast Namban tsuba, but I doubt that this one is cast. Cast guards were produced in larger numbers and the rarity of this one makes me guess that it is a "one off." I wonder if it might have been made for use as a tanto in a daisho. This is an interesting piece. Peter

"could someone please let me know what is the correct name for this type of Hamon?" The answer to this question is, "Crap we shouldn't be discussing here." These are obviously not Japanese blades. The way to learn how to recognize r4eal Japanese swords is to look at real Japanese swords. Books, even a bunch of them, are not enough. Go to sword shows. Visit shops were real swords are sold. Find other collectors with whom you can get "face time." Peter

Well, gee. I think Grey is right that this is "nothing special", but I would speculate that the blade might be a bit older than Meiji times. There seems to have been a market for odd-shaped shoto in earlier Shinto times, kata-kiriba and this kind of big unokubi-zukuri. These things are often unsigned, too. The edge may be a bit doughy, but I would put this blade through a shinsa. And actually, I think this may have been a rather nice looking rig. Peter

David, Let's cut to the chase. 1. You have an interesting sword, but 2. It has lost a great deal of it's latest history, BUT 3. Its latest history wasn't all that important. By 1700 this was being treated as "an old sword." 4. If you like Jakushi tsuba, keep the guard. If not, sell it. (go to #5) 5. Dump the fittings. Somebody may be able to use them. Buy lunch at a sword show. (Actually, I like the habaki) 6. Make the blade as clean as you can and submit it to shinsa. Ron Hartmann gave you a great kantei - this looks like a Nambokucho weapon that earned its wound badge. This is a 'samurai sword." 7. If you get positive kantei, (no saiha, no hagiri) have this blade polished. 8. Enjoy the blade. So there Peter

Please allow me to mention as a part of this thread that I just published an article in the summer 2012 issue of "Man At Arms" on biloded or auriculate Namban tsuba. It is entitled "Small-swords in Japan?" Man at Arms may not be on the radar of most Japanese collectors, but I wanted to discuss the relationship between European small-swords and Namban guards because I think we should encourage broad interest. In my opinion, "Namban" is a mish-mash of exotic objects and motifs 1) that some 18th century Japanese sword wearers found interestingly decorative, and 2) that fittings makers could add to their merchandise. Peter

Please let me know what you think of this, as it seems pretty plain. I think this is a solid $35 guard. I also think that you should not waste your time on things like this. Demand more. Keep looking. When you find something "good" you will recognize it. Peter

I am in Kennewick Wa. It is in the southeast corner of Washington state. Well, that explains it. I'll bet this was bought to the New World and lost by Kennewick Man. Peter Bleed

Friends, Again, I turn to the forum with a question. I have heard that togi were able and willing to polish blades but then dull the edge. I had never seen one until yesterday when I realized that a nicely mounted blade I recently acquired fits this description. After I cleaned the blade it turned out to be in good polish with an edge that is well-formed, but it is not cutting sharp. The obvious question is why was this done? Is there a name for it. And, ahemm, , , what does it do to value Peter

Eric, You have presented an interesting issue - as well as images of a very interesting armor. It is truly amazing that anyone would break up such as obvious matched and mated unit. Still, I feel the need to point out that many of the "suits" we encounter, as well as many swords, koshirae, and other 'kits', have obviously been wed in the past. The challenge is knowing what must be preserved, what doesn't belong with the rest, which elements are beyond hope, and what might best be appreciated alone. Peter

Ian, Thank you for your wonderful comments. I have a few responses. But before I get to them, I would like to point out that the forum really and truly is wonderful. The forum provides us with an opportunity to pose questions – even naïve ones – and quickly get the expert opinions from people like Ian Bottomley and John Lissenden. This ain’t bad, friends! Okay, back to the dou. Your suggestion that Sendai yukinoshita dou were systematically tarted up in Meiji times is most interesting. I am a great fan of Sendai Shinto blades. I love Kunikane style masame, but one of the banes of collecting Sendai Shinto is so-called “ato-mei”. There were 14 generations of the line, but they fell on hard times at number 4 so later generations made lots of mumei blades that went right into the Date arsenal. The story I heard was that in Meiji times, the unsigned blades of the later generations were sold and ‘signed’ with names of one of the first three generations. If blades were being embellished, one has to suppose that it might also have happened armor. Certainly, Sendai kanagu-ya had the ability to do this work. Think of all those Sendai tansu! All this to say, 1) thank you, and 2) very interesting ‘theory.’ Peter

Brian, Thank you for your help! This is a big picture! Let me add that there is uchi-dashi embellishment on ALL sides, including both of the overlapping right side panels. Peter

The annual meeting of the NBTHK was held in Sapporo in 1974 or 1975. For that event a volume on swords in Hokkaido was published. It had great information including information on the Horii smiths, Ainu cutlery, and - don't forget - Masao. Copies should be available. Peter

John, Thanks for the comment. The sword I am looking at could be Meiji-era, but there are elements that make me want to believe that it could be late Edo. Is electro-plating the only/best way of creating a "silver" finish? Furthermore, the fittings of this tachi are also smooth, no nanako, no karakusa, not even ishimei. Where shiny kodogu "right" for tachi - - - before tourists were buying them in Yokohama? Since I am writing, let me also mention that my piece of Namban tsuba - with sincere expressions of gratitude to you - is due to appear in Man At Arms later this summer. Peter

Dear Friends, When did Japanese kinko begin coating brass with "white" metal? I am looking at a tachi tsuba of brass with "silver" dai-seppa. These -below the grunge and tarnish - are high gloss, but they show a couple of abrasions that reveal a brass core? When did such plating begin? Thank you in advance! Peter

Ian, I attach an image of the armor that is current absorbing my interest. It is a 4 hinge, 5 plate dou, but it is built of multiple panels. I have never owned a yukinoshita armor (tho, with my interest in Sendai, I would love to have one). My expectation is that yukinoshita dou tend to be sleek, almost like corsets. And weren't they typically made with single, large plate? The armor I'm looking at is built of several plates and it has a barrel shape. It also is not a Sendai armor since the kote have the mitsubshi crest! So, please share your reactions and tell us your "theory about these." Peter

Ian, Thanks for the advice. The forum worked, in that I got truly expert advice quickly, . . but I think the reality must be that this do is not signed. I looked where you suggested - and everywhere else - and found nothing. Peter