kunitaro

and 実用新案登録　Patent register 第２１１６５９号 number 包鉄鍛錬刀印 Hotetsu Tanrento In Wrapped iron forged sword stamp

Nitric acid treatment is just a tip of iceberg. There is hundreds of treatment as well as neutralizing treatment which are almost all secret by each school and each polisher. (maybe some are good, some are not) and Meiji Period is that Japan's industrial revolution, so, after Meiji period those study developed a lot. They (all craftsmen) are constantly researching and developing new idea, we never know what they know today. I believe that they were doing all the time with what they have in Edo period as well. we can recognize low level work, but, we can not recognize master work....But,. experienced polisher can see it. so, there is some way to see it. Artist doesn't need to tell his secret.... so, we should train our eyes, A story,,, There was a master Sashikomi polisher in a past, around 1950-1960'. He was famous only in the professional field. He is the last master of Sashikomi polish. He polished a lot of blade. But, all of the blades which he polished were re-polished with in a few years. because, 2nd or 3rd owner didn't understand the master work, they thought the polish is not good. so, the blade is re-polished with new fake sashikomi or kesho/hadori polish.... after him, nobody do real sashikomi anymore... if you ask any old master polisher in Japan, all of them knows this story, said my teacher. from this story,,,,I think that the collector is also responsible to understand the art of polish, because, craftsmen try to make what collector wants, Craftsman's level is depend on collector's level. In Samurai period,, People were viewing a sword under candle light. After Meiji period,　electric light bulb, Polisher has same light at his workshop, Now, I heard that some new people are viewing a sword with fluorescent lamp, so, some polisher try to do his work under same light,,, mmm, a bit out of topic ???

Yes, It is good example for Kantei for beginners. as you see, many people misjudging... not because, they didn't know, because of rough/quick viewing. basic of Kantei start to look at Sugata as everybody knows. at first, you have to see if the blade is ubu nor not, If you misjudge Suriage sword as an Ubu sword, then all judgement will go wrong. Funbari become important point to judge this matter, Then, look at whole sugata and Tsukuri-komi, such as Sori, Shinogi-haba, height, Mune shape and height, Niku-oki of Ji and Nakago etc., to guess schools. Also, you can see the level of smith. 上作(jo-saku/high class) or 下作(ge-saku/low class) After those examine, move your eye to Jitetsu and hamon.... How do you look at sword ? The dealers are looking at sword very quickly and make decision. because, they must. but, collectors don't need to or shouldn't act like a dealer. you have to stare at each point(or photo) at least 3 min or more, When you staring (at particular point in your mind) long enough, you will start to see more stuff which you didn't see before by rough viewing. you start to see how the smith has done, or suriage has done, how polisher has done etc,... When you stare good enough with good knowledge, you will receive a lot of felling and intention of the artists, That is a kind of communication with craftsman/artist. This is an important part of kantei and appreciation of art as well.

Alank san, This is an example of acid polish.

And This is link of JP forum about polishing sword. The thread title is "I want to be a polisher" http://ikura.2ch.net/test/read.cgi/knife/1215423467/ they are talking a lot about acid treatment openly. some are saying that " I asked the polisher, he said he had never used acid" and other said "If you can not recognize acid polish by yourself, that is your problem" or some young polisher is saying "without knowing acid polish, i can not eat." etc. I am not going to translate, If you are interested in, Please try google or something, maybe you can get some idea...

I spoke with the master polisher more than 2 hours today... (It was election in Japan today as well) Dear Trotter san, Info about British museum collection, Most of polisher did their best job. because it was honer job, so, there is a lot of master polish in the collection. we can not say how each polisher did, all of them have their own method. People in Japan say "Fujishiro is "karikari(Crispy), Nagayama style is bright, etc,. Well trained polisher each other and very experienced people can see who did, and which style, Fujishiro style, Honnami style, Nagayama style etc,. A story of polishing a sword of British museum. One of the best student of Fujishiro did a katana of British museum, He did his best with traditional way. It took one and half month. and think about preparation such as Kanahada, jizuya,hazuya making by hand, It is almost 2 month job. he did really good job. but,he got paid 300000JPY include Shirasaya and Habaki, It is less than 100000JPY/month. He was happy with his job, but, he was not happy with money, so, he said he doesn't want to do it again. and He had another offer from other museum, so, he asked 500000JPY, then the museum didn't want to pay,,,, If you have family and kids (high school university,,,), you can not work $1000/month. A lot of dealers and collectors want to pay $1000 for a normal commercial katana,,,,,so, the polisher need to polish 5 or more katanas in one month, the time become priority for their income. so, they are trying their best to find a way to make good polish quickly... There is not only acid, more new material for neutralization after acid, or some are using modern polishing oil for industrial machine. also, inventing Polishing machine, Hadori machine, etc,... Another story,, The master polisher did a katana by himself, because, he liked the blade, so, he did it how he like, and gave it to his client, After one week, the client came back and told him that he could recognize the polishing was done by his student. color of jitetsu, activities etc, something different what he expect or what he knows, so, the client asked him to do it again by himself, he doesn't mind to pay extra, said the client, He(the master polisher) was kind of pissed off, so, he let his student to do quick job, Then the client was very happy.... He said, some people have big knowledge, but, doesn't understand... Look for cheap and quick polish is not good, but, paying high price with blind eye is not good either.... I think we have to develop or grow our eye (not only knowledge) before we suspicious polisher's secret. This is for myself as well.

Thank you. Both of Jitteko and kanahada are used. and they have different effection said the polisher.

Yes, I confirmed it. they use fine powder of magnetite. And What is Kanahada ? It is the spark from hummer/forging. what is it in chemical name ?

No I am not sure,,, What is "Kanahada" ?

磁鉄鉱　Jitekko is Iron Oxide, I think. It is almost same stuff as Kanahada, You can buｙ Jitekko from shop, and Kanahada, you have to get from sword smith. However, That is not real Sashikomi (tsushima-togi), it is Kanahada (or Jitekko) Nugui. and All of professional polisher have their own (secret) water, nitric acid or some other chemical solution. almost same as Yakiba-tsuchi (clay for Yakiire) All sword smith have their own secret clay. PS: the old master polisher is not my frined, my master/sensei. I am like a kindergarden for him....

it could be 元治元年　 Genji Gan-nen 1864-5

Antonym of Sashikomi is not Hadori, Sashikomi vs Kanahada-nugui. Basically, it is used powder of Tsushima stone, which is almost Uchiko powder for make Jitetsu darker. Another name of sashikomi-togi is called "Tsushima-togi" for this method, you need to do Uchigumori much more. and take long time to make jitetsu darker, and make Ha brighter with Hazuya only, so, Jitetsu is less darker and Ha is less whiter than modern polish. Kanahada-nugui, using carbon/iron oxide to make Ji darker, used occasionally in Edo, but, as a technique was found by Honnami Heijuro (there is wood print of him in my book "Kurihara Nobuhide/the last master sword smith" :D ) and established by Honnami Ringa" in Late Edo to Meiji period, and Honnami Koson, Hirai Chiba are famous masters as well. By using carbon oxide on Ji, makes much darker fast and also protect the steel as well, and use Hazuya to make Ha whiter, it makes good contrast of Ji and Ha, and bring up both Ji and Ha activities well. Modern instant Sashikomi is that, after Kanahada nugui, put nitric acid aqueous solution on Ha, and use Hazuya, and again, acid water, and Hazuya again, till good balance. and no need Hadori, so, the job of Ha will be done within one day ! very quick ! but, when you use Uchiko for maintenance, Ji become less dark and Ha become dull, and still some acid remain in steel. Real Sashikomi is opposite, use uchiko, Ji become darker, and Ha become brighter,,,, Also, the master polisher told me one story that, He had a client order old Sashikomi, so he did it, but, the client wanted too see good condition form quickly, so, he did a lot of Uchiko, few hours everyday ! for a few years, then,,, all polish was ruined He said, quick job never work, need proper maintenance every 3 month, take 100 years... no short cut.... "差し込み研ぎとは、日本刀研磨における仕上げ方法の一つである。対馬研ぎとも呼ばれる。対馬砥の粉末を用いて、地鉄に黒味を帯びさせ、刃を際立たせる。江戸時代に始まり今日にいたるも、明治期に本阿彌林雅が考案したと言われる「金肌拭い」が現在の主流である。金肌拭い自体は江戸時代からあったと伝えられているが、体系的に整理したのは本阿彌林雅であろう。"

Sorry, 稲葉　知義 Inaba Tomoyoshi

I was a little too slow to post something on this Topic because,i was a bit hesitated to speak out about modern sashikomi polishing. so I was talking with an old master polisher who knows about real sashikomi polish, I was asking a lot of question and confirming answers, All of Sashikomi polished blades which we see today are not real sashikomi polish, we can say It is kind of "Instant Sashikomi style". They are used nitric acid, make it looks like old Sashikomi, (cheap kesho polish as well) and I think that Most of members have never seen a blade with real old sashikomi polish. I have seen a few in my life. one was Bizen kagemitsu (Kokuho) at the owner's house. second was Bizen Mitsutada (Ju-bun) and Nagamitsu (Ju-bun) at Takayama Takeshi's house (son in law of Honma Kunzan). They are not Hadori, so it looks like modern sashikomi in a way, but, it is completely different... Jitetsu is kind of transparent dark, and Hamon is with some colors, so, it is almost 3D jitetsu and hamon. not flashy, but, you can see real original activities, I can not explain with my poor English. It become like this through a couple of hundred years of proper maintenance. Those swords have been in experts hands through all history. it is showing How the sword should be.... but, they are very very rare... I asked about this matter to the old master polisher, He calls those polish " Gunto-togi" or "San(acid)-togi". It was used for Gunto or cheap sword for quick job. 1945-1950. a lot of sword with quick polish were sold to GI...etc. around 1985, He got a request to send a polisher to France. so, He sent one of his student mr.Kurokawa. (he was 27 at that time, now he is 54 years old), He lived in one of French dealer's house (for 3 years). When he started to polish sword in France, he found out most of clients want "Gunto acid polish" they were calling "Sashikomi",,,,, so, the student polisher was calling his master, so, the master told him that polish only not important blade,,,,, He said that he knew this problem since 30 years ago... I asked him why no more Sashikomi ? He said that at first, Sashikomi polish will take double time, than kanahada-nugui style, (using carbon/iron oxide) so, the polishing cost will be double, and Fresh polish of Sashikomi is not really beautiful, very dull compare to Kesho polish, Need proper Teire(maintenance) and It will take a long time (100years or more) to become excellent condition. After Meiji period,,, non-samurai don't want to pay double amount of money for after 100 years condition, they can not see the best condition in his life time....haha, He also said that The master (kesho) polish blade will become good sashikomi-polish after 100 years with proper maintenance. but, Acid polish will not be stay good condition for a long time. without good care, it will be damaged by acid.. I think that is one of reason why we don't see modern Sashikomi polish in high quality important swords. Not many, but some of Old important polish are preserved in the good hand still today. He was a (living in) student of Hirai Matsuba, a son of Hirai Chiba. a brother of Honnami Nisshu. He is one of last masters who have 口伝/Ko-den (oral instruction) from Master from Meiji - Edo period. However, I worry maybe my comment will upset some people... I will be able to continue asking question for him. if anybody have (serious) question, welcome. or If somebody really want real Sashikomi polish, we can arrange it as well ! Best kunitaro

I think 稲葉　知義

Dear Chris san, I think that most of dealers (in Japan) know almost any items, exactly how much they can sell at dealers auction (Ichi), so, they want to pay a bit less than the price. I think that you and some of members have been the dealer's auction in Japan. Did you understand what they do ? have you seen "碗伏せ(Wan-fuse)" auction ? Those top dealers who Dacy san was talking about, they are extreme, If you want to make profit, it is better to stay away from them. but, if you want highest level items, they are the best source.... mmmm When a dealer gets very best sword, they want to sell it to the very best client. when a collector gets very best sword, they want to keep it, and want to sell other sword. That is different between a dealer and collector, I think.

If you find one of these ( NBTHK Kicho-token Feb.19-1950) ! It will be more important than Juyo-paper. This is copy of Tokenbijutsu 1950 June.

We are doing Basic Kantei study for beginners with actual items. Often, Studying only Book doesn't work with actual purchase. to see the sword, if it is Ubu or Suriage, is the first of first for kantei. one of most important matter to exam unknown antique blade. That is why I am trying to explain, especially for self studying beginners.

Dear Dacy san, I remeber the sword and your story...

Still good example of Funbari :D All Japanese (Ubu/Original condition) swords have Funbari. I think that to find Ubu healthy blade without Funbari is difficult. High ranking smith's blade have beautiful Funbari which makes beautiful Sugata, low class, gibutsu/gimei swords are poor sugata which is poor funbari, (still funbari though) To examine Sugata (only), the scanner image is easier than holding a sword in hand...

Franco san, I have not much to say after you. Yes, experienced people or dealers are trading without exchanging images, because, both know exactly what they talking or pointing about, When you joint a study group in Japan, Old member teach you how to see the sword, and basic. step by step with very good example. most of beginners will be able to make basic kantei within one year, mean time, they visit commercial sword shop in town, then they will learn different qualities. I know some people who hold a sword and acting like examine sword, but, They are looking for Kizu. don't know really what they are looking at. I think most of high quality swords (above Juyo) have Kesho (Hadori) polish. Is it only fashion ? If Sashikomi polish is better ( to see all activities ), why not it become less popular than Kesho polish in Japan ? If it is personal choice, most of high quality sword collectors order Kesho polish in Japan, why ?

Jaques san, mr.Kurokawa is now 54 years old. When he went to France, He was 27 years old a student polisher, lived in a dealer's house in France (Paris i think) for about 3 years for polishing swords in France. He was sent by a master polisher in Japan by request. This is about another threat about Sashikomi-polish. I was talking with the master polisher about Sashikomi-togi, and his story is starting from his student Kurokawa in France....so, I asked you, maybe you know them (the dealer and Japanese polisher in that time)

Yes, I agree with Moriyama san, 源 鎮 時 Minamoto Shigetoki

I see clearly Funbari on both Oei and shinshinto Bizen swords. Oei-bizen, you can see very beautiful Funbari on mune side, and mune side of Nakago, Ha-side is almost no-funbari, so does Nakago. so, when you concentrate to see 3 lines (Mune, Shinogi and Ha), you can see how much polished from original. you can see a bit polished out, but, it is very good condition for the age, and very good polish (Shitaji-togi for sugata) And Yokoyama Bizen wakizashi, you can see strong Funbari also Mune side, and Ha side, a bit less, so does Nakago side, and can you see it could be 1/2 cm machiokuri ??? see Togidame. So, That wakizashi is a bit tired,,, You want brand new condtion for Shinshinto, Tiredness is not only Kizu, who can see ? who can't ? PS: Jaques san, Do you know a polisher mr.Kurokawa who lived in France in mid. 80' ?

Dear Jaques san, Is this meaning that you think Sue-koto,Shinto/Shinshinto, Gunto Gendai-to have no funbari ? BTW, Do you know a polisher mr.Kurokawa who lived in France in mid. 80' ?