Ford Hallam

Colin, that's a coincidence ...I stumbled on exactly that piece in the same catalogue today too

Morning Rich ( well...it is here ) good link there. That's very clearly a clearer version of the "questionable" one. I thought this line was interesting though; hey....we may have found one

Cheers Rich, your input is most welcome...the 7th cavalry you might say . Your examples illustrate precisely what I've been trying to show. regards, Ford

Hi Jean, the stroke you refer to does in fact follow exactly the same line as all the other examples...honestly :? ..I'll try and show that more clearly in the next images I show. To push my point about the scarcity of comparisons I would suggest that the Boston museum example ought to be rejected due to the fact that the vertical stroke on the last kanji on the right makes that very abrupt turn to the left. Further, of the 4 I mentioned , that look so similar, it's clear that there are discrepancies in the spacing of the horizontal lower stroke on the last kanji on the right....which one is right? In addition to that the top stroke on the kao is relatively straight in the middle one ( in the images below) whereas the other 2 are clearly curved. there are other discrepancies but there's no need to be that pedantic...I think I've made my point, and these are obviously all examples from the same period. I'm still working on this thorny issue so I hope you'll all bear with me and help by adding what you can to the melting pot cum analysis

great input and commentary, thanks again all I'm sure no-one on the board will be surprised to read that I did indeed have a "hidden agenda" with my request for mei to compare. The thing that strikes me about this sort of exercise is how reliant we actually are on a very poor base line of certified examples. The artist in question, Hagia Katsuhira lived from 18o4 until 1886. In 1844, at the age of 40, he was made an official artist for the Bakufu by the Daimyo of Mito. From this we can confidently assume he was at that stage an accomplished and established artist. What I'm getting at is that he held this elevated status for 42 years. It is inconceivable that his mei remained exactly the same throughout this period. Of the examples shown so far ( I hope for many more) we can clearly see 4 that are obviously from the same period, being as they are, remarkably similar. I would also point out the variations in actual compositions of the others and what is actually recorded. I've alluded previously to the fact that this study of ours is still very much in it's infancy, in the West, as well as in Japan. Perhaps we're in a similar situation that connoisseurs of renaissance paintings were in 150 years ago . In any case, I think there is a very real need to apply the sort of rigour to assessing mei on kinko work as there has been on blades. In short, we simply need more examples and from the whole range of an artist's career. As things stand it's often comes down to a game of "spot the difference". Having said that, I am also aware that professional Shinsa appraisals in Japan have hugely broader range of reference material at their disposal... it would be helpful though, if we could access more of it :D . Finally, it is a fairly well recognised trait of artists, in all mediums, to alter the actual rendering of their mei and kao ( in particular) over the course of their careers and these variations have subsequently become a means of dating works. The most thoroughly documented case I know of, among kinko artists, is in fact Kano Natsuo. In his case this is helped by detailed workshop records of the works. The calligraphy of Yamaoka Tesshu is another good example of such variations indicating the probable date of the work, this despite many very convincing forgeries.

thanks Gents, for the input and samples so far Curran, I will certainly be happy to reveal all very soon. I just need to take some really clear images first. What I must also add is that this piece is signed ura so is quite possibly a commission piece. I have looked at the work of both the first son, who signed Katsuhiro and used a different kao, as well as the adopted son who used the same kanji as his master. The workmanship however, on this examples is as good as it gets...and the actual composition is clearly the work of a talented and original artist. I've hinted elsewhere on NMB regarding a special project in the works...but will write up a full "press release" on my blog in a day or two. Suffice to say, this is part of it and probably the biggest challenge of my career.

Most of you will read this mei fairly easily so I won't bother saying what it reads. For those of you who can't read it I would like to suggest that it would actually make a good exercise. You will find all the kanji you need here. For the rest of you clever clogs here's the subject of my investigation, it's of a kinko tsuba btw. The first mei is the one I'm assessing. The other 2 are genuine mei taken from the Toso Kinko Meishu Roku. I have a few other, particularly of the format I'm looking for but they are not very clear images. If anyone else could supply more reference mei to compare these with I'd be most appreciative and I'd welcome any comments too. Thanks in advance, Ford

and this one quite apropos;

Hi Martin, I haven't tried to distinguish between steel and iron. I think we've covered that one, it's all steel of varying carbon content. ( and other trace elements) But to address what I think you may be getting at; firstly, as I pointed out way back, I think that trying to use the actual shape ( this would include the cut out design as well as overall physical appearance) of this bit of steel to define it's origin is a poor start. Shapes can be easily copied, even if very poorly, as in this case. That being said how can we then rely at all on that aspect of the tsuba in question to try to asses it's age and the rest? The fact is we can't... What we are left with is the appearance of the material itself. We know, and are reasonably agreed that it exhibits practically no defining characteristics at all. The fine graininess seen on the rim ( seen in a magnified image ) is in my experience achieved on mild steel in about a week. If you polish a rounded bit of mild steel and subject it to a bit of damp, perhaps with some salt thrown in for good measure ( I'll refrain from supplying details of my processes ) and give it a bit of a rub at the end of the day with some very fine steel wool this is precisely the sort of effect you get. It's simply the start of the breakdown of the surface steel. If this steel was hand made in any manner it would be unlikely to be anywhere as uniform or homogeneous as modern steel. This is why when we examine even relatively late steel from the Edo period that has been made by traditional methods you can always find some hints, however subtle, of these variations of the surface composition of the steel. The area inside the nakago ana which I maintain is evidence of casting has been interpreted by some to suggest the classic 3 plate Akasaka construction. The first problem with this idea is that the plate is made first and then nakago ana would e cut out...leaving a relatively smooth inner wall. It may be suggested that corrosion has caused the softer inner core to corrode away leaving these cavities but that seems unlikely as the rest of the guard shows no such corrosion. My view would be that it was cast this way. Shan can't believe that anyone would go to the trouble to file up the design to hide evidence of casting but leave the nakago ana like this. The fact is you can see some similar pitting in at least one of the images of the sukashi...and if the maker of this piece were to completely file away the casting marks inside the nakago ana he'd be left with a very awkward shape indeed. The copper sekigane is also, in my opinion, brand new. Pete has suggested that it's appearance may be due to over enthusiastic cleaning, perhaps involving an acid. When you use acid on steel and copper combined it generally results in a sort of electrochemical reaction that causes the copper to be flash plated on the steel. This is a well known phenomena and is easily recognised, however mild. Again this is only my view, based on nearly 30 years of daily work with these sorts of materials , but that copper looks as though it's never had a patina. In a similar, but somewhat more subtle, way to the breakdown of the steel surface by the action of corrosion ( rusting, patination etc ) copper (and all non ferrous alloys) that have any sort of genuine age reveal the passage of time in the appearance of the outer skin. In the case of the seki-gane, while they may have been over cleaned and thus the tell tale surface I miss been destroyed, but I find this unlikely because of the "hardness" of all of the copper faces...it would be practically impossible to re-polish every surface to such a clean state if these bits of copper had been anything over a few 10's of years old. Similarly I see no compelling signs that this tsuba was ever mounted. The bright steel on the seppa-dai area is not evidence either. How does a copper seppa wear steel like that? It doesn't...and I haven't seen steel seppa yet When I look at a tsuba like this my range of possibilities covers the whole span of tsuba production from beginning to now. I have no artificial cut off point at the end of the Edo period that I feel I need to try and squeeze everything questionable in before. To do so without firm evidence simply lowers the perceived standard of the work of the Edo period tsuba-ko. The suggestion, to explain the terrible workmanship, that this was probably made by a genuine smith before he became skilled would be funny if it wasn't so improbable. Any apprentice who produced work like this, in that period in any reputable studio, would have found himself in the street begging...if not in the sword testing grounds for wasting expensive materials and lowering the "all important" reputation of the shop. It also reveals a total lack of appreciation of the way artisans were trained and is more likely informed by modern conceptions of shoddy manufacturing practices and cost cutting. I have complete amateurs with no direct, face to face instruction, on my own forum who regularly produce work far superior to this.... You have to ask yourself how someone so inept got himself set up as a tsuba-ko....and how he might have survived producing work like this. Pieces like this, being attributed to Edo period workers, simply serve to tarnish the reputation of genuine work and I for one would like to see a much harder line being taken with such "questionable" pieces rather than what I see as unjustifiable accommodation of bits of metal with absolutely no redeeming features. Chuck them in a tatara I say ...rant over ...and now I've admitted it Shan, I don't like this piece and nothing worth appreciating about it in my (refined) opinion

I appreciate the conciliatory tone of your post Shan, even though you continue to misrepresent my view. I have never said I didn't like the piece and neither is anything I've suggested been offered on the basis of my own aesthetic taste...that would be pointless. In fact I think it disingenuous of you to keep trying to suggest that my opinion ( which you perceive as negative to your apparent aims) is informed by my personal aesthetic taste at all and as such can be easily dismissed. Your obvious selectivity is referred to as confirmation bias. You didn't, in fact state that you were interested in my aesthetic judgement on the piece either; this from your first pm wrong...I gave a technical assessment of what I could see and a judgement on the design. Thank you for your kind compliments though... no...this is not at all certain. and here you reveal a remarkable lack of understanding of rust....no gnomes are actually involved at all ( they do however, do the delicate stuff in my own studio when I'm asleep) :D ...creating rust is stunningly simple, and making it look very old is not a huge accomplishment at all. In fact, based on some opinions expressed here I may even change direction with my work and meet the demand for this sort of thing myself....he he, then you won't hear me shouting "fake"! don't be...as a few have already said, this makes for a great discussion...as long as we keep logical and consider the evidence fairly. Anyway, I hope this thread isn't exhausted yet...

C'mon Shan...don't go acting all hurt now. This is not any kind of personal attack...just a healthy debate. As for delusional, well, perhaps in your case you are merely overly optimistic. I was actually getting at the "4th master attribution"...and still waiting for some sort of explanation in that respect. I do think, though, that you are being very selective about who and and what you hear. Your suggestion that you had considered asking me not to comment publicly lest my opinion influence anyone else is quite shocking to me and suggests a willingness to ignore any input that is not what you want to hear. I note you've tried to posit a conclusion at the end of your post; A bit presumptuous, don't you think? The matter is far from decided. I have never claimed to be the "all knowing oracle" but whenever I do offer an opinion or try to clarify various technical matters I take the time and effort only because I want to help, and remember, you approached me. If you don't appreciate my input I'll take care in future not to say anything relating to your enquiries so that I won't accidentally burst any of your bubbles. As for anyone else who has any doubts about whether a particular piece may be a fake etc please feel free to contact me either by pm, on my own forum or on this board. If I can save anyone from wasting money on crap it'll be a pleasure. :D

..perhaps someone could actually present some sort of evidence for this group delusion then...an example of a genuine work that bears some similarity to the piece under discussion might be a start. Citing anonymous Western and Eastern experts without providing any explanations for those opinions isn't convincing me at all, nor, I suspect, many others. I may be the loudest voice of dissent ( or reason) but I'm perfectly comfortable being proved wrong so I await enlightenment. Rich T, you've placed this in a 100 year time span, that's at least 4 possible Akaska masters ....on what basis and characteristics do you make this call? Again, some actual images would help us all appreciate your reasoning. Exciting...isn't it? :D

Hi Colin, is your grandmother a gypsy?..or do have crystal balls? :D Something rather unique in the works...of the highest quality too. Project starts on the 1st of June...with initial internet ready rough cuts ready early August. How much would you pay for 1 hour of what your heart desires? I'll reveal more details this week regards, Ford

Further research, a close comparison with the steel texture and colour of this example as well as an apparently similar manufacturing process point towards this group. Here's a link.

I can't speak for Reinhard but those marks inside the nekago ana look suspiciously like an "as cast " surface. The copper sekigane looks bright as a new penny too....and as rough as a goats knee On the basis of this new evidence I'd like to revise my initial opinion and suggest this is much newer than the 50 years I first thought. I now believe this to be a cast steel tsuba, possibly made from a mould taken from an original but the great thickness makes me think otherwise, cast metal shrinks so does the wax model generally used to make the mould so that would mean an even thicker starting point. It's probably no older than ebay. night night, Ford

maybe try refreshing your browser... ..or I could send the images to you in an email :D

hmmm...I think I would have been even more convinced in my opinion had I been sent these much clearer images. I never suggested junk but as far as I can tell this is plain mild steel and the work of an amateur. Not much older than 50 years. I would like to point out that anyone can make a plain steel cut-out based on a picture in a book so I would suggest that any considerations based on the actual design are irrelevant if the steel itself doesn't support that attribution. my email reply;

Yes, it's a cast copy. The seam lines in the openings are very obvious give-aways. The copper plugs in the tang opening were added after casting from what I can make out. It's quite a decent cast though but unlikely to be antique...yet

missile aborted...Lorenzo is in the clear :D he resolved the problem with a little help from Brian. Thanks muchly old chap Anyone should be able to view the thread I linked to regardless of whether you are logged in or even a member...we're nice like that Sorry for the inconvenience. r

Here's a link to a brief tutorial showing how I make my fitted tsuba boxes. It does take a little bit of care but I like the security this sort of fitting provides. I have my boxes made to my specifications and I believe the lady Martin is referring to is the same lady who acts on my behalf.

Hi Brian, I didn't want to start a whole debate about this statement on the forum right now but where do you get this information....and can it be validated. The reason I ask is that casting steel...is not something the Japanese did until the early 20th cent.....cast iron yes...but steel...and as complex as a pierced tsuba I sincerely doubt that. Can you think of any other domestic products from the Edo period that were cast steel....a very advanced process, and that apparently was only used to make cheap copies?....doesn't makes sense regards, Ford

Hi Colin, I too missed your original post and subsequent discussion on this tsuba. I've hesitated to throw my hat into the ring as I don't agree with the consensus that it's a cast tsuba. While it's true we're seeing more and more fake guards and the techniques used to produce steel copies is keeping us all on our toes in this case I can see no convincing evidence that would condemn this piece. I think John Stuart was also not entirely convinced this is a cast piece. Without having the piece in hand all I can offer is my gut instinct based on what I can read from the images. I see no tell tale flaws that we would associate with a cast piece, I get no sense of shrinkage that inevitably occurs when the wax model is taken from the mould of the original. The surface seems quite dense and well worked, albeit having suffered some corrosion. The seki-gane are perfectly "true" to my eyes and their colour is absolutely correct...this is not so easy to fake on a steel guard. I noticed the linear markings in the sukashi which you point out. At first glance they do look very much like grain boundaries in layered steel. It's possible the marks are caused by some other process but on balance I'd accept it at face value. So, in the absence of any overwhelming evidence I have to declare your much maligned tsuba innocent regards, Ford

Ok...let me see if I can clear up some points :D kin keshi komi zogan is only used to fill chiselled or engraved lines and dots. A further application would be over a textured ground what would then be polished flat to produce a mottled or variegated pattern. The easiest way the distinguish true wire inlay from kinkeshi komi zogan is the examine the ends of the lines. Wire inlay end square while keshi zogan tapers off to a fine point. As with all things there may be exceptions but generally this is pretty clear. Martin, the leaves on your kozuka are almost certainly true hira zogan. To try and fill these leaf shapes with amalgam gilding would be wasteful, take longer than doing true inlay and also not be as easy so it wouldn't make sense in this case. In fact it never makes sense to try to simulate true inlay of bigger pieces with kin keshi zogan. Lorenzo, stop with the guessing....it's not helping This is not at all something that is done in Japanese metalwork...it's simply not feasible in any real, practical application.

Hi Eric, I'm pretty confidant that the copper is true, wire inlay ( hira sen zogan) the gold characters I suspect are also true inlay but as I can't see the edges of these raised kanji I can't be sure. They may be carved from the sunken ground, like early Mino work, and then simply had the raised surfaces gilded with kin-keshi. If you can examine the sides of the gold characters and can see the gold going neatly down to the shakudo ground then I'd suggest that it is solid gold inlay. regards, Ford