raiden

Ford, please do, I wonder if we have the same version of his book. Mike

Here is my classic Rakuju, it is of the same proportions of the one on the Kassen Koshirae. In fact the NBTHK thought that Rakuju probably might have had the original to copy from since it is nearly exact. The bone idea is interesting, and I will bounce it off my sensei when I go to Japan next time. It also would be interesting to see what Ito san would say as well. The original tsuba in thsi post looks a bit different than the norm, I am not sure if it is the pic or what, but the rim looks different than those that I have seen in hand that have been determined Jingo or are signed and determined genuine. The missing small holes that are on mine for the Butterfly eyes make one wonder what the design may be - a friend who knows nothing about tsuba thought this design wass a turtle.....

Off subject, but do I correctly recall that you said that even in the book of Musashi by Tokitsu it is NOT mentioned that he made tsuba?

What type of hamon and jigane does it have, Gassan Teiichi have many fakes made, even now that i have seen that were put on ebay by a bad dealer.

sometimes too large of a pic takes away from the fittings desired effect. I find that they need to be viewed both close up as well as in a normal sized setting to enjoy properly.

one is Tokubetsu Hozon, one is Juyo from our NBTHK KoKinko seminar.

You may also attend the NBTHKAB lecture, at chicago we do not charge for entry.

for me, I always send the blade to the polisher that specializes in that certain type of sword. I wonder how many people out there on this group have used more than 20 different polishers ,much less than 8 different Mukansa grade or higher polishers? Or send more than 30 blades a year to different polishers seeing both the before and after results? I have.

just my 2 cents worth...

if there was no zogan inlay, pehaps Saotome would bean acceptable idea, but with the inlay i feel it must go somewhere else.

maybe Umetada School. Not much states Higo to me.

There were originally 2 large offers already made for the Akihiro pre show. One of the offers was made last year by the recently deceased dealer Mr. Pepin.1 Japanese dealer that was also contacted prior to the show came to see and offer at the show as well. The owner has no idea of the sword market and will take time before he realizes that it is not worth a million dollars. We also made a large offer, but not as much as for the Tokuju Akihiro that popped up a few years ago. That blade was longer and in better condition as this Jubi unfortunately has some openings that need repair by a professional in Japan. The Tokuju also had a date, the Jubi does not. It was also sad to learn that the original sayagaki was removed and that the Juyo Bijutsuhin certificate was missing. This both hurts the monetary and historical value of the blade. It was once the property of the Shimazu family. I do hope that one day that this blade will be restored to a better state, and work its way back to Japan. Mike

Guido is correct, also Juyo bijutsuhin (Jubi) without the original certificate have a lower value as well. there are also blades that have been determined as possible Gimei that have the Juyo Bijutsu designation by some strong authorities, but they still have the designation and most have a provonance.

We will be posting a few pics of the show on our Facebook page in a few days, with some info from the show. https://www.facebook.com/pages/Tetsugen ... 6426147884

Just so that everyone knows, the Akihiro was NOT polished by a Japanese polisher (a person of Japanese ancestry), it was NOT polished by Bob Benson. It still may be savable if taken to a top Japanese polisher. I was very sad when I saw it and hope that one day it will be saved.

Now nothing more until after the show probably, it will be very busy....bought a nice Nagasone Okimasa and a nice Nobukuni Yoshimasa today! See you all at the show!

It passed with flying colors, Hagihara sensei said that this was a special signature not often used by Natsuo, only in special circumstances, something learned from a Shinsa.

A while back I posted some pics about a Naginata Fuchi made by Kano Natsuo. At that time there was some animosity as to its authenticity even though there was information in the Natsuo Taikan. To satisfy some that it was respected by some elders at the NBTHK....

I spoke of evidence in my earlier post, Tanobe Sensei emphasizes this. OK so how did they know the date? I asked, as I was amazed. They know this by the study of many RECORDED pieces and from records from Tadayoshi and the Nabeshima han. He showed me the old books, with the explanation. It was very educational. There always will be skeptics, but I am more skeptical of someones opinion that has had no access to great examples in hand, no formal training or access to the old records and books. How do I know the Mona Lisa is real? IHow do you know the declaration of Independence is genuine? Steve anything for you is suspect if you were not there when it was made. So we rely on information, facts, proof, records and proven examples to come to a educated conclusion. I ask again, would you buy a $30-40K tsuba or blade without ANY certification? If so would you be that sure of your self? Very few people would, but those that do (I know a few, and have done it myself) do so as we have had formal study from reliable sources. Of course everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and I can respect that, if they can respect mine. And my opinion is that a Shinsa is a very good resource for both beginners and the advanced collector (I know very few people that could authenticate a real Sukehiro signature with confidence here in the states). Shodai / Nidai Yamakichibei? whats important here is that they are in the same opinion that it is a high level piece, of the same school, and can be either 1st or 2nd. That is way close enough for me as far as educated opinions go. they did not say shodai Yamakichi then say Myochin later assuming it was the same shinsa. That would be a problem as far as I was concerned and would ask why, as they will explain.

I guess we have to back up again. For those that would like a good educated opinion about their item, a shinsa is a great place to start. Whether or not if you agree with the opinion is a moot point. How you use the information afterwards is important. I have stated many times, a shinsa is an educated opinion, albeit by supposed professionals, but in most cases by someone who is educated in this field. That is where i can see where background comes into play. Tanobe sensei is a great example, having worked at the kyokai from a young age, and special training by Homma and Sato directly. Then access to the best examples and research material in all of the world to use and study. A person that could tell me when my Tadahiro was made just by the writing style even though it had no date. He always told me that it is important to have facts and evidence before making an opinion. For me for either educational reasons or for investment reasons, shinsa is a very important feature in the world of nihonto. Personally I would be very afraid to buy the Mona Lisa without any certification........ Steve would you buy a nobuiye or a yamakichibei for $30,000 without any papers at all?

sorry getting ready for Tampa, so time is short and I have a deadline by the 25th as well.

Steve i havent had time to read your large post (how do people find the time) but my questions before I do so to you are Do you have papered items? Do you buy them already certified? If they were papered to a different school , would you still own them? Would you pay the same price if they had no certificates?

Well, since I have to look at a huge collection tomorrow, i will probably have no time to write about this so here it goes. BTW I thank those who took a shot, right or wrong it is good to do so. In the beginning, this tsuba was looked at by several friends of mine and some other high level collectors. The general consensus was Kokinko. The 2nd choice was Goto. But because to me the dragon was a different style, yet of very high quality, it reminded me of some work I had seen a few years ago. So I did some research and came up with a judgement to put on the submission papers NBTHK (yes you may put your idea on the entry certificate). I have proof of this as I told the client who purchased this piece what my idea was BEFORE it was papered. My call was Umetada, Momoyama period. The tsuba had extremely great work in gold uttori that could only be done with high skill. Often the Umetada School is forgotten as they did a number of different high grade works in anything from iron to all types of soft metal. The Hozon result was Umetada (easy to pass Tokubetsu Hozon by the way), Momoyama. So by submitting a piece like this, it educated many people, and opened the eyes of others. Otherwise it would have been always thought off as Ko kinko. BTW later as I did some more research, I found a signed example in the Kurokawa collection by an early Umetada artist that was signed with the same design, right down to the criss cross gold rim. So Yes it is good to submit some items to shinsa.

There was a maker that signed seijo who made many signed fuchi kashira of a similiar dragon as your tsuba. Owari kinko is also similiar to your tsuba. My dragon has a reason for its posting on this thread in which i will get to in a few posts. Got to get a few things straightened out for Tampa.

Well does anyone want to take a shot for fun at the dragon tsuba?