paulb

Dear all, Definitely out of my comfort zone and looking for help. I have been asked to look at some blades. One of these was a gunto mounted work signed Kanenobu. Before seeing the blade I had assumed it was by the smith listed in John Sloughs book, however when it arrived the kanji were different than those illustrated. The nobu character is the older style (see attached image). Searching previous posts here I believe this may be by the illustrated smiths father and teacher who signed this way. However I also understand there were other smiths using this mei at the same time. This is a very good Gendaito in excellent Showa mounts with a pierced guard and filed dress Knot. I think t needs polishing (scratched in places obscuring the detail of what looks to be a very active hada. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

I received a copy of the book today. Headstamp have done an exceptional job. The quality of illustrations is excellent and offers an incredible reference to those with an interest in this field of collecting. I think it is also a great tribute to its author John Plimpton who sadly passed away prior to publication. The images used are largely taken from his own collection which was regarded as amongst the best.

Hi Jack, I am sorry I don't remember the sword. The problem in identifying the age of an unsigned blade if it is Hizen is that they tended to work in a fairly uniform and timeless sugata rather than following the trends of the time. So a blade from early Edo Hizen will not look greatly different from either earlier works produced in the Muromachi era or pieces made in late Edo (this is a generality there will always be exceptions). As you say later smiths also made copies of much earlier works. Something I didn't pick up in your description, how thick is the blade? The hamon could well suggest Hizen how thick is the nioiguchi? Hizen blades are often described as having a thick "belt like" nioiguchi with ko-nie running through it. hakikake in the boshi and bo-utsuri would move it away from Hizen. My gut feel is that it is likely later Edo and likely Hizen but that is said without great conviction. Sorry not sure if this has been much help

Jack one of the things you need o look for when trying to define hada is the amount of activity within the ji. Nashi, Chirimen, Rai and to a slightly less extent konuka, all have ji-nie and in the case of nashiji a lot of chikei running through them. It is very difficult to photograph but if the source of the images you have used is what I think it is then all of the swords used had profuse ji-nie and activity in the ji and running through the hamon based on very bright ko-nie. In your image I can see what looks like very tight ko-itame but no activity within the ji (maybe photograph or quality of polish). I agree with Franco before trying to tie it down based on jigane try and determine age based on size and shape as a starting point then you can refine the search further.

My Gardner has cost me thousands over the years(thought marrying her would have meant a special rate!!)

Hi John, not specifically aimed at your post but I have generally found the more complex the explanation I make up to make what I am looking at fit my ideas then the less likely it is to be true.

condolences to family and friends

Can I just point out that Bowman is not an uncommon name and that the one referred to here is not me, nor as far as I am aware do I have any relatives in the USA.

The Unji you mention was one (one of two Juyo blades) of the 53 swords donated to the Armouries by the family of my very dear friend and teacher, Deryck Ingham. The other Juyo blade attributed to Yamato-Shizu is on permanent exhibition in the Tower of London. The Armouries team are very enthusiastic and always support us fantastically when we have study days there. Overall I would guess they have over 200 blades and some important armour. One of the most important is currently at Buckingham Palace for the Japan exhibition in the Queens Gallery. This is the armour presented to James II as a diplomatic gift in the 17th century. You are correct that both the V&A and the British museum have stronger collections of fittings. The Ashmolean in Oxford and Pitt Rivers in Cambridge also have good examples of fittings although with limited numbers on display. Regarding the Unji, it was purchased at auction by Deryck when it was sold as part of the A.Z. Freeman collection. Professor Freeman was based in the USA, and I believe he purchased the blade directly from Japan.

I have read the above with interest, not least because one of the most common questions we are asked at the Token of GB is "which books should I buy". It is true that the books by Basil Robinson and John Yumoto have errors and have been greatly superseded by more recent texts. However, 40 years ago they were all that was available to us and we cherished such information as they contained. They did at least feed some of the hunger for knowledge and drive us to learn more. We are fortunate that the combination of a further half century of research and much greater availability of information online has greatly enriched the knowledge pool. Regarding more modern references, personally in recent years I have found Markus Sesko's publications to be of great use. Again, best read with a grounding of knowledge but even for the complete novice they offer a great deal of information in an accessible form. Other than that, I fall back on the old favourites of: Nagayama connoisseurs' book of Japanese swords Nihon-to Koza The NBTHK English version magazines And once one has a basic understanding: Anything by Tanobe Michiro Sensei

I spoke to the president of the NBTHK EU about a month ago. He told me that regrettably Gido's condition remained pretty much unchanged. As far as I understand he has not regained consciousness since the initial trauma.

Not saying I'm right and your wrong Alex but my perspective is pretty much the opposite of what describe. First and foremost I have to like what I am seeing regardless of whether it was signed or not or I know exactly who made it and when. I now have two signed blades the rest mumei and some have varying attribution. What they all have common is a beautiful shape and hada and all in good condition. As said this isn't necessarily right just different. It's a positive thing that there are so many different approaches

Thank you Gentlemen you have been a great help

I bought this Fuchi Kashira set some time ago. At the time the mei was given as Omori Hidefusa. However having relooked at it I don't believe this to be correct. I struggle enough with kanji on swords and I am afraid I am even worse on fittings. Any suggestions would be much appreciated.

Hi Colin I think that has always been one of the frustrations with the NBTHK they have never, as far as I am aware, offered an explanation (They may do in person to Japanese members or if asked directly but I don't know) I think part of the problem is volume, they see too many swords and it would be too larger task and partly language. The quality of English within the organisation has improved greatly but there still appears to be a reluctance to communicate. If it were the other way round, we would find it equally challenging. The NTHK have a different approach if they fail something they will usually say why and if gimei they will say what they think the sword is.

George, We are often told that shape tells you how old a sword is. Actually, it doesn't. An ubu shape can tell you how young a blade is but not how old. Smiths have been making copies or pieces in the style of older work for very many years. Below is an example seen here before. The shape is screamingly early Kamakura. In fact it was made in the Oei period some 200 years later than one might originally suspect.

George, I think it is pretty much impossible to guess at the age from images (not just yours, any) Shape is interesting and suggests early but the steel just doesn't look as early as Kumakura and certainly not ko-Bizen. Again, this is very much guesswork. It desperately needs to be seen in hand to get a better idea of what it is. If i had to offer an opinion I would say it is late Muromachi but can't honestly tell you why. Edit: Sorry see I Jimmy got there before me but seems to come to the same conclusion

Will do Colin

membership has increased year on year for the past 5 years. demographic has reduced (albeit slowly) and most new members are in their 30s/40s. The only way you can assess the age and number of members is through access to the Society's database which you don't have. So once again your comments are inaccurate and speculation. As long as there is an interest in what we do, which certainly seems to be the case the Society will continue. When that ceases to be the case it will stop.

Colin, I don't think anyone here would have claimed to have "cracked it" Next year it will be 40 years since I bought my first Nihon-To and I have studied the subject more or less continuously since then. I have taken part in the NBTHK Shijo kantei every month for the past 20 or so. I would love to think I have cracked it, but the reality is I remain a complete beginner. Unfortunately, we (i) just do not have sufficient opportunity to look at really good, authenticated swords in the volume and frequency necessary to build a level of expertise. However, that doesn't stop the journey from being incredibly exciting and rewarding. I think all that happens is that you accept you can't learn it all and appreciate what you have picked up enroute.

Gentlemen I really do think this needs to stop. Jimmy your comments are not based on facts and experience by your own admission they are based on "what you've heard" Are we perfect? No far from it but we continually try to improve. at risk of sounding arrogant we have come a long way in recent years built on a strong foundation laid down by my predecessors. I am confident that under the new chairman this progress will continue. We should and I hope do welcome feedback and we do encourage members to share an concern and criticism this is helpful Your hearsay and inaccurate comments are less so.

Glad you enjoyed your first meeting Lee I hope we have inspired you to come along to some of our regional meetings and museum study days in the future. Then there are zoom meetings which are Increasingly popular

This is not unexpectedly becoming a farce. It is apparent that regardless of what is said here you will take the contrary view. In line with our published code of conduct if any member has concerns about our activity they should contact a member of the committee they may find that of greater benefit than sharing their displeasure with you. I will say it as clearly as I can and for the last time your view whatever its origins is incorrect. Fortunately our membership continues to grow and attendance at meetings is generally high. So we seem to be doing something right for the majority.

Without wishing to become embroiled in any argument, especially one based on misconception can I draw your attention to the first sentence on our website home page: "Since its foundation in 1964 the role of The Token Society of Great Britain has been to encourage and support the study, appreciation and preservation of Japanese swords, sword fittings and associated artefacts within the UK" That is the focus of our meetings and hasn't changed I had the honour of being the Chairman of the Society between 2016 and 2021 and can say emphatically that the Society is not a "Sales platform". Do members sell to each other? Yes, I am sure they do. Is that the prime purpose or ever been the focus of any meeting? absolutely not. One only has to look at the meeting reports and agendas set out for the meeting we hold to see this is the case. I am not sure where this idea originated but please don't give it false credibility through repetition it is just wrong. Regards Paul Bowman P.S. regarding "Acredited experts" in our zoom meetings we have had presentations from recognised authorities such as Paul Martin and Eckhard Kremmers. Some of our regional meetings included lectures from experts such as Ian Bottomley and Ford Hallam. Admittedly others of us have shared ideas and experiences but don't make any claim to expertise. We are enthusiastic and trying to help each other learn

Dear Lee and Colin, As you may know the Token Society of GB hold regular regional meetings around the country. The only governing factor is finding a suitable venue and that there are sufficient people with an interest to make it worthwhile. We have held meetings in Scotland, the Northeast of England the midlands and the south. Happy to add East Anglia if the interest is there. If of interest, please get in touch via pm and we can see what we can do