Justin Grant

Inside facing each other. Here is my armor, notice the suneate.

John, you are correct, for official duty, the primary lords kamon was displayed, after all, it was the head family. :D

I would like to add a bit of information to Big Brian's post above. According to the research from Professor Rubinger and his book on literacy in Tokugawa Japan, the use of Surnames and Kamons among villagers and merchants, etc exploded in the last 50/75 years of the Tokugawa Bakufu. Then in Meiji, all bets are off as everything was for sale to the west. The use of these heraldic emblems was strictly controlled until this point, but this does not mean that there was abuse of the system, I am not so naive, but I would not say that the entire Tokugawa period was a free for all on Kamon adoption. Now, to the other Brian's kamon, they are very correct, unless you can trace it back to an owner, you just know who the original kamon belonged to.

KM I have never seen anyone use a stand like that. This is typically how those stands are used. But if it work! http://www.shogunart.com/other.html

Ian, You get all of the fun! If you ever get a chance to snap some photos, please do! KM, That is the same basic stand I use, but modified to allow the dou to rest on a new cross bar at the bottom to reduce the stress on the shoulder straps. Also an adapter on the head to remove the stress on the delicate ukibari (liner)

Ian, Thanks, and I understand. I thought I would use clear fishing line, and weave it in between the mimi ito on each gessan and run it up to the inside of the dou and fastened it just enough to remove the tension of each gessan. I have factored and modified my stand to have a support on the bottom of the dou to remove the weight and stress from the shoulders. I also employ the same measure on the kabuto. I also wrap the shoulder bar on the stand with heavy wool. All of which are your modification advise a few years ago that I took to heart. It may not be practical, but I will try it. I would like the option of switching back and forth to change the look of the room a bit. Ian, in your book you have a photo of a room full of armor and most in figures. Do you know how that was done or where they obtained the bodies? Barry, thanks for the lead, I'll reach out to them.

I have the traditional adjustable neck stand under my armor that sits on the bitsu and the whole contraption is located in a sealed glass case to control temp and humidity. However, never being one to let things be, I want to create a stand to make the armor stand. I was looking at the images from the display of the Barbier-Mueller show that Berry Hennick posted. The armor were in standing position and I want to try this. Anyone have any suggestions? I looked for the mannequins online and they are salty if you can find a 65" to 67" tall version with the right stance and arms in the right position.. So, I thought I would make one from wood, and since the hakama, and the rest of the armor would hide it, what would it matter. Anyone ever try this, or have suggestions on how to make it? The case I have is 76" tall, 32" wide and 38" deep, and the bottom will have two rods about 8-10" long that protrude up and into the feet/legs of the stand to keep it from falling over... I am hoping that there are pictures of something I can follow here.. Maybe I am in new ground and will adapt the current stand I have and add legs... Anyway, need to do something now that the weather has forced me inside.... Thanks

Also, for comparison, here is a Hanpo from what I believe is the early/mid Edo that belongs to a matching set of armor I purchased from Toraba (these are Trevor's images)

Martin, This is a Hanpo or 1/2 Mask. They too cover a wide range of time. There are little "tells" that can help direct you, but unless you have years and years of experience at looking at known dated items, it is simply a guess unless signed. I don't have the experience to do this myself. I have several Menpo and Hanpo and the dates are all over the place. I was told one good indicator is the color of urushi on the inside (red or balck), the hana (nose) rivits vs. prongs, the asa-nagashi-no-ana as indicated above. Here is what I think is a mid/late Edo menpo (notice removable nose)

I bought the book Grey referenced above and it arrived today. It is a must have! Unbelievable... I now have a new mission in life, to make it to TX to see what they have.

Luc, Send me info on your set for sale. Me

Here is a link to the images. https://picasaweb.google.com/1040542998 ... directlink Thanks, and any input is greatly appreciated!

Ian, et al, I am still researching this Kamon, and in class today (East Asian Studies at Indiana University) we are studying Hotta Masayoshi and presto, this is the same Kamon. So, I started looking into this and this clan was awarded the han of Shinano in 1635, then in 1643 they were moved to Sakura where they remained until the end of the Edo era. So, we are speculating that the Tanegashima was made in the late 1790's early 1820's. The maker signed that he was from Go Shu Hino, and the early part of the clan was in Shinano, which is right there, but the decorations are Sakai, so I am just looking for some thoughts. Thanks.. Justin (Watching the US Elections Results on TV, and shaking my head)

Thanks Ian. You answered the questions I had, and it its clear now. Thanks for the education. Justin

What Dave means is, you can get one like it on Ebay with a helmet for around the same money. These are not high end armor. Nice to have in a collection, but not a treasure. Justin

I too have looked at that gusoku, and have wondered about the lacing on the Dou. It looks slack at the top, and maybe that is just me being picky. I don't think it is a matching set, but that is not to say it is not original parts, just think some parts are from other armor. For 400,000 JPY or $5,000 US, you could do much worse on ebay for that same money. There are some real pieces of junk there for the same amount of money.. The place that is selling this armor have been real good to me on my purchases, so I can reccomend them from an honesty and ease of transaction standpoint. Good luck

Thank you, what would be the reason for such a thing? Are you saying this might be a moderisn item? Hope for Piers sake that is not the case. Justin

Hey guys, can you elaborate on your statements, I would like to understand what you see and why. Thanks Justin

True, but it does reflect a major political issue during the time.

My understanding, and what is being taught at Indiana University is the following: Jomon 10,000-300BC Yayoi 300BC - 300AD Kofun 300AD-645AD Yamoto 500AD-600AD Nara 710AD-794AD Heian 794AD-1185AD Kamakura 1185AD-1333AD Kenmu Restoration (Go-Diago) 1334 Nambochuko 1334-1392 Muromachi 1392-1582 Momoyama 1582-1603 Tokugawa (Edo) 1603-1868 Your mileage may vary.

What did you clean it with? Ian told me to mix White Spirits (Mineral Spirits) and Boiled Linseed Oil in 50/50 mix. It works great and leaves a nice semi gloss on the sabiji areas.

Hi Andy, I don't have anything to add to the debate here, but I did attend the display at Frazier and took several pictures of some very nice items. It was a wonderful display and I managed to secure several catalogs. Thanks for the wonderful display that was just an hour from my home. Justin

Hi All, I think Markus hit it. I should have provided more information. It is part of my Samurai History Class at Indiana University. We are watching the 47 Ronin and one question is "Who is the shogun in the film? How is he portrayed? How is his sobayonin portrayed?" Just was not familiar with the term.. Thanks for the help!

What does the term Sabayonin mean?

I vote for ice cream! By the way, if that is a drawing above, that is one heck of a job! Looks real.