Not shakudo but black iron tsuba

[raynor]

Greetings,

 

I picked up this mumei suposedly mid to late Edo tsuba recently, it was described by the dealer who is very knowledgeable as being shakudo plate but upon receiving in hand it it is quickly very obvious that it is iron. The weight, the feel, the bits of rust on the inside edges, the metal showing through where the patina thins and the tsuba being magnetic makes it no debate.

 

I've never seen iron tsuba with quite this sort of dark patina before, very dark and with a muted sheen to it but none of the deep vibrant blue or purple that shakudo has. Granted I have no seen that many tsuba yet in hand. Does anyone know what sort of patina it is, or any idea of school or other information?

 

The inlays appear to be gold with the exception of the bird itself that appears like brass besides its eye that does appear as a single dot of gold, and the bamboo leaves do appear as shakudo plate. Size is about 7x6.7cm or 2.8x2.6 inches.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[rkg]

It kind of looks like maybe the piece was lacquered at some point?  The surface of the tsuba shown in the image next to the bottom kind of looks like lacquer that is partially worn away.  Other options are more nefarious - it could be some patination work was done on it (does it smell of selenium salts?) - It could also be wax - You might also try taking a q-tip with alcohol on it to the edge of the mimi and see if somebody brown/black waxed it - though YMMV on that - it could be that was done by the maker, so....

Best,

rkg

(Richard George)

[Ian B3HR2UH]

The dealer obviously knew nothing as it is clearly an iron tsuba, ie he is not very knowledgeable

Ian brooks

[Steves87]

I actually have no idea about this Tsuba's patina other than I actually like it. I can say for certain that hot oil bluing semi patinated iron gives an extremely similar finish. Being around old farmland and old tooling/machinery we get this finish a lot

[TETSUGENDO]

Would not venture a quess as to the state of the patina from these photos, as stated it could be any number of things.  I am continually surprised at the wonderment a black iron patina causes, many schools used black patinas...nothing extraordinary.  As for the origin of your tsuba, it looks like late Nara work to me.

 

-S-

p.s.- BTW, Shakudo does not always exhibit a blue or purple sheen, sometimes it is simply black.

[raynor]

Thanks for the input so far. The tsuba does not smell of anything at all, and handling it normally the patina seems quite resilient, no flaking or softness etc. I do like it despite it being iron not shakudo as announced. Still..

 

The dealer obviously knew nothing as it is clearly an iron tsuba, ie he is not very knowledgeable

Ian brooks

That's the thing, I know the dealer is very knowledgeable. It's a Japanese dealer frequently linked to on this very site. Puzzling.

[Vermithrax16]

I think this is the second post saying a well known dealer, well known to NMB, in the last few weeks with some sort of issue. I can't remember and can't scan now, but maybe "horror stories" thread and a post by Rivkin, seems to follow a same flow.

 

Might be better to just say what you want to say, and allow a free discussion.

 

In any case, I like the tsuba above, are the black inlays shakudo? Was that the misunderstanding? Dunno.

[raynor]

The issue if calling it that is that the tsuba is iron and not shakudo as announced when purchasing.

 

Not really an issue I will loose sleep over as I personally prefer iron tsuba over shakudo, but for someone else it might have been a thing and speaking as a greenhorn I would have to be very drunk to suggest this was not iron five seconds after seeing it.

 

To err is human, I am not unhappy with the deal and will continue to shop with them, just puzzling someone as knowledgeable and usually very thorough would miss it, even the appraisal note describes it as a shakudo plate tsuba.

 

If it appeared that I was having an agenda of some sort that is not the case.

 

Yes the black inlayed leaves appears to be shakudo, and the tsuba being iron makes them stand out nicely against the background I think even tho they're both dark.

[ROKUJURO]

What puzzles me about this TSUBA is the fact that the TAGANE marks in the NAKAGO ANA have been left untreated. Usually you will find them filed down to fit a blade.
Concerning patina in general, the surface has a lot to do with the appearance of it. Some HIGO TSUBA have a very smooth surface, allowing for a deep black sheen. Patination of iron may vary from brown to deep black depending of the chemicals used.

Some rust spots (?) seem to have been treated with a sharp tool, which gives the impression of an amateurish handling. 

Traces of wear from SEPPA are almost not visible on the photos, so together with the 'clumsily' executed hills that form the background, I have an impression that it may be a very recent TSUBA. 

[raynor]

The thought that the mid to late Edo estimate given by the seller might be off struck me too given that the tsuba and the inlay work especially seems almost spotless, with no signs of wear besides some scruffmarks down along its middle.

 

Then again it came in a very dark old looking and smelling(!) Kiri box with its imprint from age on the pillow inside.

[Steves87]

I noticed those 'sharp tool' marks also Jean, I thought maybe they could have been caused removing the tsuba from a nakago, there are some methods which place contact in those spots, but I think they may be on the wrong side?

[raynor]

Any tips as how to better photo the patina? The initial pictures was taken with a focus on the physical state of the tsuba rather then highlight patina or a specific feature. I guess flat from above with incandescent lighting works?

[ROKUJURO]

I noticed those 'sharp tool' marks also Jean, I thought maybe they could have been caused removing the tsuba from a nakago, there are some methods which place contact in those spots, but I think they may be on the wrong side?

The tools I know for removing a TSUBA sitting tight on a NAKAGO are made of wood and wouldn't cause damage!

[TETSUGENDO]

Sometimes things are as they appear and nothing more....

 

Although this tsuba is attractive and worth owning, it is NOT a masterwork.  There are awkward design elements, the poorly rendered bird does not "naturally" sit it its place...instead the poor legless creature is "pasted" there.  As remarked the mountains ARE strange...simply a bit of bad draughtsmanship?  As for the patina, the crude rust removal probably necessitated some degree of "touch up"(amateur).  Lastly, the RAISED area around the Nakago ana appear to be artifacts left by careless "refitting" to another blade and nothing more.  

 

-S-

[raynor]

I agree on the bird, I have a set of menuki with two sparrows on each about the same size as the bird on the tsuba and all four have well made legs. The mountains are a clear break from the usually serene distant feature they serve, but in hand does not appear badly carved and with some purpose. Maybe a familiar mountain to the maker? I do lean towards the lesser draughmanship tho, considering the legless bird. It comes together as quirky, but attractive as you said.

 

I know the tsuba is not a masterpiece, but as it is my first tsuba featuring different techniques besides just a hammered plate, inlay and dot inlays I hope to learn from it.

[TETSUGENDO]

Omar,

 

With your open mindedness and positive attitude you will learn much.

 

-S-