Tsuba with slotted seppa-dai

[docliss]

Oh dear Adam - mea culpa. You are, of course, quite correct in your observation of the defaced mei on Andrey's tsuba. I shall have to think again! John L.

[IanB]

Gents, All suggestions about a locking device of some form suffer from the fact that the position of these slots would necessitate it lie slap up against the habaki. In that position it could only engage with the inside of the saya. Goodness knows how such a device might be operated. No, that is one use that is just not feasible. We have now determined it is not to alter the shape of the nakago ana so we must look at the obvious. It is a small concealed cavity sandwiched between the seppa. What for? One possibility, and this is not my suggestion but a colleague's, for carrying a small amount of gold or silver for emergency use. Another suggestion, of mine, is a small rolled up prayer or charm on paper.

Ian Bottomley

[runagmc]

Ian, it could be something like that...but since we know the slot was done as an alteration on at least one of the tsuba, and cut over the mei, I'm not sure. It seems like that might point to a more functional purpose to me, but I could be wrong.

 

The fact that the slot's size and position wouldn't allow for much of a latch, and even less latch movement is a good point, and casts some serious doubt on that theory as well.

[IanB]

Adam, I cannot see the problem with the defaced signature. Whatever the reason for the holes, they were not the norm and were presumably added at the owner's wishes to an existing tsuba.

Ian

[christianmalterre]

Ian,

i do like this idea you write-however,it seems to be more nostalgic(from point of view) than practical(in consense of functionality) in mine eyes here...

Me i do still not feel confidend with this idea-to be honest.

 

If i do calculate that the common use of an sophisticated use of coins was not known until 1600 around,the first regularity of pressed coins in the form of the three different Koban variants was just introduced in Keicho(1596-1614)and just before that time just and only Nobunaga Oda did introduce something like an "System" so to produce coins as an payment possibility(here rather as an "Reward form", dedicated to his best warriors; which´s system never but did get an official status as an way to pay in regularity-rather as an new(imported Portuguese)idea(which took place,not before 1570)-i do do me hard in accepting,at least,this gold theory here....

Before 1570-the coinage-system was unknown in Japan.The common way(to pay) was so to use raw Gold(Golddust) in little paper-sacks(paber-bourses)(lack of correct wording here in english,Sorry),or in an form of pressed little sheets/plates/barrels of unhomogenous folded Gold was but just the regular way.

(Citation): Yamamura Reijiro,Hozumi-Shigetomo and Ledebuhr-The Japanese way of commerce(1887)and Scriba The Japanese Coins in Gold and Silver(1880)

 

If-such execution was eventually intended so to carry Gold(or any other-"concealed" material for use for an "possible paying" in case of need)-it certainly had not ben existing after that date any longer...Not?

Those Tsuba here we are speaking(including those we already have seen)all,but date at least mid Edo if not yet very late Edo...(at least i did not have seen any Tsuba bearing such-dating younger than around 1750 till yet)

So in sum-this would make no sense in mine eyes...

 

(Just Speculative...!)

 

Christian

[John A Stuart]

兩 or 两 [simp. Chin.] The Chinese tael was the origin of the Japanese ryo 両 as is evident in the similarity of the ideagrams. This system came from China in the Kamakura era. In China the tael was very complex and variable, Japan less so. John

[IanB]

Christian, I take your point about coinage, but I did not mean it was for coins. There are plenty of swords out there with long drawers fitted into the scabbard for that purpose. I have a fake tanto that has no blade but a big drawer for carrying coins. What I meant was a small piece of gold or silver - like a small ingot. This was not my idea but that of a colleague. The more I think of this, the more I am inclined to the idea of the slot being for a prayer or charm. I was once shown an armour in Japan with a small bag fastened to the sashimono bracket on the back. The bag was fabric covered in mail and inside was a folded prayer paper and a tiny carving of Buddha.

Ian

[christianmalterre]

Dear Ian,

 

i see,so you do mean an kind of "Shintai" here...Hmmmm...?

Yes-why Not?

Of course-again mine speculative critique here again...seeing the traditional way of wear and cloths worn here,with common use of wearing the both swords on left side,an nice charming Inro(which did include an "Shintai" again(or the little petschaft filled with medicine/herbes),wearing normally the monney-bourse,the Yatate and perhaps an additional comb-well couched inside the Obi...this,again-at least after what todays we are learned to know about this custom of wearing clothes-does seem unlikely equally....

If such-why then such additional work done(especially on the Tsuba?)

Tricky! LOL!

(here something very personal thought which may be read sarcastic-is but not meant at all as such-rather in regard of the sword itself...

The Sword is an weapon-so would you-in case you are used so to wear one(weapon)-dismount it(the weapon) to an actual non-suitable condition at any moment/despite you are 100%secure?)

Me,certainly not!

(asking other-would you dismount your´s Glock despite back at home again?)

 

I still am confident that this must have to be rather an constructional reason those little window here got cut out/drilled....

Still not convinced here....

LOL!

At least-it´s good that i am not the only one headaking here...

Christian