original patina on silver fittings of the late Edo period

[Tokaido]

Hello to the group,

I wounder if anybody could tell something about the *original* patina on plain silver swordfittigs of the late Edo period?

Most mountings I see in catalogues or on auctions seem to have a bright polished surface on the silver fittings. But if I keep a koshirae displayed on the kake, the silverfittings slowly turn to a purple tinge. Looks funny, but should the silver fittings be cleaned with some cloth? Mostly a very slightly rubbing with a cloth or the handling of the koshirae with cotton cloves will have a polishing effekt so the purple tinge disapears immmediately.

OK, we never polish shakudo or shibuichi because we know that the colorfull patina of these fittings is intentional. But what about silver fittings?

 

There are some saya with hirumaki of gold or silver band on it. These silver bands will allways receive a polishing by the obi, wouldn't it? So would the *rest* left alone or been polished on a regular basis?

 

Greetings

Andreas

 

See attachment for a sample of hirumaki koshirae

[John A Stuart]

Hi Andreas, I have a koshirae at the sayashi that is handachi mounted that is currently being restored. It is fairly old and the nuri needs polishing and the fittings remounted. Anyway the fittings are fairly high content silver and are subject to blackening. Sulphides I believe. I have had a conversation with the fellow and he advised I should clean occasionally with a cloth. He is in fact going to lightly buff them as part of the restoration process. Not to gleam like a polished tea service but to keep presentable. Tarnished silver can look pretty bad but over polished would look out of place on an old koshirae. John

[Rich T]

Hi Andreas and John. of the tanto koshirae I saw in Japan ( I like tanto koshirae ) the really good sets finished in silver all had the same look. it is obviously silver, but it has patina. it has a very soft grey finish but it does not shine. It is certainly not polished like your grandmothers tea set.

 

Silver that has spent time in the field is different again. I have attached an image of a Katchushi tsuba with a silver fukurin. This tsuba would date to the Momoyama or very early Edo period and I am fairly confident the fukurin is original to the tsuba. It is near on black in colour though looks brighter under a flash or sunlight as per the image.

 

I am no chemist but I think John is correct, sulphides are the culprit.

 

Anything that shine to the point where it looks like grandma's tea set is in my opinion, either the most pristine set available or polished. If the later, then it is in my opinion, not different from a nakago that has had all the rust removed.

 

Cheers

 

Rich

[docliss]

The black discoloration of any silver object is, indeed, due to the conversion of the superficial layers of the silver to silver sulphide. That this occurs is due to the presence of atmospheric sulphur, and this was not present in Japan until after its industrialisation. Students more knowledgeable than I will surely able to give us a date for this, but presumably we are talking of the C18.

 

Before this time, any silver fittings would have remained bright - but not shiny - and this is the condition to be sought after today.This is best achieved by an occassional, gentle rubbing with a soft, dry cloth, and never with the use of any metal polish.

 

Regards, John L.

[Pete Klein]

http://www.nihontoantiques.com/gallery.htm

Shiny is anathema.

For an excellent example of the colour of old silver fittings go to the fittings gallery section and check out the fuchi/kashira.

(stop drooling Ken)

[John A Stuart]

This is the koshirae that is being restored. The silver has the grey patina Rich alluded to. John

[Bungo]

polishing the silver is no big deal............. if overdone, leave it alone for a few months and the patina will ' repair " itself.

 

milt the ronin

[Tokaido]

Hello all,

thank you for sharing your opinions.

As Milt says, the fittings repatinate itself during some months, I will try some mild cleaning again.

Concerning the atmospheric sulphur, I remember that it was an easy *trick* to patinate grandma's teapot by leaving it in the *restrooms* /benjo for a while. Some natural sulphur sorce nearby

To get a really *hard* and durable black color the silver had to be exposed to sulphurhydrogen (?) H2S wich is very poisoness (!) gas.

I remember when we children accidentially cleaned grandmas spoons and knives wich had a very durable *pattern* of black color within the ornamental carving before the misstreatening. We ask a jeweler and have been told, that there were nearly no chance to get that durable black again without chemical treatment.

Greetings from wet, cold and windy Germany

Andreas

[Guido]

My experience with gold and silver fittings: some of them stay the same color / patina wherever you take them, some get an opaque brownish (silver) or blackish (gold) hue. Maybe it depends or the purity or whatever, I never was able to figure out.

 

The funny part is that most of my fittings / Koshirae were bought in Japan, and consquently moved with me to the US, China, Germany and back to Japan. Only when returning to the "homeland" did tarnishing occur. Beats me.

 

Anyhow, I do what I was told by those Japanese collectors - and one Shiroganeshi -who are more knowledgeable than me, and use clear nail polish on the tarnishing prone parts. It doesn't do any permanent harm, i.e. is easily enough removed when so desired without any residue, and you have a hard time detecting it. Heck, I even got Tsuba through NBTHK Shinsa that had nail polish Fukurin without them minding (or maybe even not seeing?) it.

[Bungo]

" Anyhow, I do what I was told by those Japanese collectors - and one Shiroganeshi -who are more knowledgeable than me, and use clear nail polish on the tarnishing prone parts. It doesn't do any permanent harm, i.e. is easily enough removed when so desired without any residue, and you have a hard time detecting it. Heck, I even got Tsuba through NBTHK Shinsa that had nail polish Fukurin without them minding (or maybe even not seeing?) it. "

 

I must try that !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

milt the ronin

[John A Stuart]

Hi Guido, A lot of brass fittings not Nihonto related that one gets these days are stabilised with urethane coatings. I think this is a result of the modern generation not wanting to do the Saturday routine of polishing brass, the silverware or one's boots for the Sunday services and visitors. In an active household if these coated brass pieces get knicked (not stolen) the coating will start to peel. Modern brass can be stripped and polished and recoated since there is no patina to worry about anyway. We take care of our tousougu better then that but if scuffed does the acetone to remove the nail polish alter the patina underneath? One way we have protected our silver was after polishing to keep them in plastic bags and some we covered in Saran wrap. I think I will just keep my Nihonto related items that have silver in their bags or boxes and give them a quick wipe after viewing and then back under cover. John