How to remove ray skin from saya for repair...

[kaigunair]

I recently picked up a kai gunto, double hanger, which is in serious need of repair. The same on the saya has dried and pulled away. Part of it is still attached, but the other half is separated.

 

Getting a black lacquer saya just isn't the same as a ray skin covered one to me. If possible, I'd like to try to restore this one. I was wondering if any one knew what type of glue did they use to attach the ray skin to the saya? Also, is there an easy way to remove it? Will soaking it water or using a steam bath work?

 

it looks like the previous owner of the blade did not keep it in a nice spot, so the ray skin dried out. I've heard that the ray skin expands when wet, so getting it off and soaking it may possibly rejuvenate it?

 

From a previous post, it looks as though fred lohman does not repair ray skin saya any more. If any one can recommend a restorer, it would be much appreciated.

 

2nd question: what is the proper way to split open a saya to repair?(i.e. for when after I get the ray skin off)

[David McDonald]

Dear Junichi

 

Most likely a rice glue was used to hold the ray skin to the saya.

 

And I have had some luck wetting the ray skin to get it soft and then reglueing.

 

To take the ray skin totally off it is best to work dry, when wet it is easy to tear the skin.

You can tear the skin when dry but it is harder.

Then wet the skin before putting it back on.

 

Often when finished there is still a gap that needs to be lacquered.

 

The two halves of the saya were most likely glued using rice glue.

I use a thin spatula to split.

 

Not sure if this helps.

 

good luck

david

 

I recently picked up a kai gunto, double hanger, which is in serious need of repair. The same on the saya has dried and pulled away. Part of it is still attached, but the other half is separated.

 

Getting a black lacquer saya just isn't the same as a ray skin covered one to me. If possible, I'd like to try to restore this one. I was wondering if any one knew what type of glue did they use to attach the ray skin to the saya? Also, is there an easy way to remove it? Will soaking it water or using a steam bath work?

 

it looks like the previous owner of the blade did not keep it in a nice spot, so the ray skin dried out. I've heard that the ray skin expands when wet, so getting it off and soaking it may possibly rejuvenate it?

 

From a previous post, it looks as though fred lohman does not repair ray skin saya any more. If any one can recommend a restorer, it would be much appreciated.

 

2nd question: what is the proper way to split open a saya to repair?(i.e. for when after I get the ray skin off)

[kaigunair]

thanks david. rice glue would make things much easier. if I do try to remove the same, I'll post results. much appreciated!

[kusunokimasahige]

Wouldnt rice glue dissolve more quickly when you put the entire tsuka (without the lacing) in warm water ?

 

Then the rayskin also would loosen quicker i think, since rayskin is also applied when wet and malleable.

 

KM

[kaigunair]

Wouldnt rice glue dissolve more quickly when you put the entire tsuka (without the lacing) in warm water ?

 

Then the rayskin also would loosen quicker i think, since rayskin is also applied when wet and malleable.

 

KM

 

If you've tried this method before or know of someone who has first hand experience doing this, then I'd consider this method. If its just speculative, then I can already see a bunch of reasons why not to do it this way....

[Brian]

You mean besides the fact that a tsuka is very different to a saya?

 

Brian

[tony edmunds]

Hi Junichi

 

This kind of restoration is always a risky business and I'd think very carefuly before deciding to strip your saya, that said, I have done it with old tsuka(always in a very poor state ). I found that a very light steaming ( I used a domestic steam cleaning machine) was enough to loosen the old glue ( probably rice glue) and the same then popped right offwithout over wetting the wooden core.

I'm not sure that wartime koshirae makers were using rice glue for same on saya but I'm sure someone better informed than me will know.

 

Tony

[kusunokimasahige]

Junichi i lost the original PDF which described how to work with Samegawa but this may also help you along :

 

http://www.macabeeknives.com/articles/S ... 20age6.pdf

 

I am absolutely sure that if the samegawa was glued on with rice glue soaking it in lukewarm water would do the trick.

 

I would not know how long it would take to dry the saya afterwards though...

 

http://www.montanairon.com/tsukamaki.html

 

An interesting read would be :

 

(The) Sword and Same

Arai Hakuseki, I. Tsurio

 

KM

[drdata]

Nice pdf link KM.

 

Thanks much.

 

Regards

[kaigunair]

Tony, thanks for the steam suggestion, which is something I have been considering.

 

KM, good link and read. As Brian pointed out though, I am actually thinking about restoring a same-saya. The pdf did have some good pointers about dealing with the same shrinkage. I do have the book, by Arai; I read about a 1/3 of it, so maybe I haven't gotten to the applicable parts yet regarding saya construction.

 

Here are pics of the saya with the fittings stripped. It looks worse in person (to me at least). The same has pulled back and bubbled up on this side, which is hard to see in the pictures. The worse damage is towards to kojiri area.

 

Any one have any scrap same? :D

[kusunokimasahige]

Junichi, i only have the general small Same you can buy for tsuka, not a large part, but one of our fellow members sells it i think.

 

http://www.ryujinswords.com/index.htm

 

I do not know if the saya was made with small pieces of samegawa... It might be a totally different species, i dont know.

 

KM