identifying 2 shin gunto

[gonnermand]

I recently gained an interest in Japanese swords, and bought these 2 cheap on auction. As they have been badly neglected for what looks like many years, I don't expect them to have much value apart from historic. Any help and information would be much appreciated.

Sorry about using links instead of images, but for some reason, the site wont let me post images. Please note there are several images on the links.

 

sword no. 1

 

http://lauritz.com/Item/ItemImage/ItemImagePage.aspx?LanguageId=1&ItemId=1994359&ImageNo=6&ImageCount=9

 

 

sword no. 2

 

 

http://lauritz.com/Item/ItemImage/ItemImagePage.aspx?LanguageId=1&ItemId=1994396&ImageNo=3&ImageCount=6

 

Thanks.

John.

[pcfarrar]

Unfortunately both swords are modern Chinese fakes.

[Grey Doffin]

Hi John,

Ditto; both fakes. You need badly to gain an interest in Japanese sword books and do some serious study before you buy another sword.

Grey

[gonnermand]

Okay. The auctionhouse guarantees their autheticity, so i'll just get my money back. But out of curiosity, what is it that makes the swords fake?

[Stephen]

so i'll just get my money back

 

let us know how that goes.

[pcfarrar]

Okay. The auctionhouse guarantees their autheticity, so i'll just get my money back. But out of curiosity, what is it that makes the swords fake?

 

Almost everything about them is wrong. See this website:

 

http://www.h4.dion.ne.jp/~t-ohmura/gunto_002.htm

[Thierry BERNARD]

... But out of curiosity, what is it that makes the swords fake?

 

everything is explained here :

 

http://www.jssus.org/nkp/fake_japanese_swords.html

[gonnermand]

right... i'm still a bit puzzled as to what gives it away

I cant really see the hada or the hamon on the pictures due to its bad condition , so I'm guessing it IS the bad condition ..? or is the writing in chinese? I can see the tsubas look kinda oversized and rough... If someone would tell me some of the most basic giveaways regarding these 2 swords it would make it a lot easier for me, convincing the auctionhouse that these are indeed fakes..

 

Thanks to everyone for the help so far.

John.

[Grey Doffin]

Hi John,

1st sword: handle wrap is wrong, the habaki is wrong, the tsuba appears to be iron and rusted (tsuba of this style are supposed to be brass, the fitting at the bottom of the scabbard is the same as the one at the top of the handle (should be different from the handle).

2nd sword: Chinese gobbledegook written on tang, weird angle where tang joins blade, drilled hole in tang (that, curiously, isn't corroded while the tang around it is. drilled after fake patina was applied), the fake patina on the blade stops half way down the tang (the faker didn't want to put his hand into the solution).

There would be more if I spent some time looking but this much was obvious. Good luck with the auction house but don't be too surprised if you get stuck. Buy books.

Grey

[gonnermand]

Thanks everyone for the help.

 

I spoke to the auctionhouse, who cancelled the auction and returned my money. I'll have to read up a bit here on the site and elsewhere before spending more money on swords

[shingen]

Sounds familiar

[Stephen]

who cancelled the auction and returned my money

 

Good for them and you.