Swords polished before Muromachi period

[Jim P]

Hi all, I was reading a web page today that speaks about Muromachi swords only receiving Shiratogi, or navy polish most of the time. What does a navy polish look like?and what type of polish was used before Muromachi compared to today ?what did the Shiage, or final polish, look like in say the Kamakura? also he speaks about.

(Sashikomi could never do the bright, Milky Way like Suguba of a Tadayoshi blade justice. It would make a very active Sôshû Midareba look too ragged, and ignores Hataraki in the Jihada.) what is meant by (It would make a very active Sôshû Midareba look too ragged,) ? someone will ask! So this is what I have been reading(http://www.shibuiswords.com/polish.htm) Thank you, Jim

[nagamaki - Franco]

An article written by Mr. Kenji Mishina, that may be of some interest http://www.tiu.ac.jp/~bduell/ASJ/2002/Sept.30.summary.html

 

what is meant by (It would make a very active Sôshû Midareba look too ragged,) ?

 

Perhaps, the author is suggesting that a more 'wild' soshu midareba hamon would be better 'painted' with a wide brush, rather than a narrow line. http://eej.free.fr/soshu_hiromasa.JPG

[Jim P]

HI Franco, thanks for ( painted' with a wide brush, rather than a narrow line.) now I understand, I had a look at Mr. Kenji Mishina's lecture. I seem to be able to find cosmetic polishing up to the 1600 but not much before then trying to work out what a sword looked

like in the Kamakura?was it polish beyond the Shitaji stage, was Nugui used or some form of darkening ? to contrast the black and white

thanks for the help Jim

[rkg]

This is something I've always wondered about. Are there any images of "known old polish"?

 

The best I've got is a naginata, early Shinto, that was apparently apparently never mounted - I don't know if its state was pre-polish or what, but....

 

http://home.teleport.com/~rkg/photos/ub ... verall.jpg

http://home.teleport.com/~rkg/photos/ubu_nag_tip1.jpg

 

note the file marks in the second image...

 

Best,

 

rkg

(Richard George)

[Eric H]

(Sashikomi could never do the bright, Milky Way like Suguba of a Tadayoshi blade justice. It would make a very active Sôshû Midareba look too ragged, and ignores Hataraki in the Jihada.)

Well, this sentence exactly and most of the article is written in Guido Schiller's

 

SASHIKOMI VS. HADÔRI, AND POLISHING IN GENERAL - A PERSONAL VIEW*

 

C.U. Guido Schiller

SFI Staff / Nihontô Editor

 

July 16, 2004

 

I think the author should have been mentioned by fairness in the "Reference's"

 

Eric

[Jim P]

Richard thanks for the photo, maybe one of the members has photo or has seen one. and Eric your right maybe just an oversight. Jim

[Guido]

Well, this sentence exactly and most of the article is written in Guido Schiller's

 

SASHIKOMI VS. HADÔRI, AND POLISHING IN GENERAL - A PERSONAL VIEW*

 

C.U. Guido Schiller

SFI Staff / Nihontô Editor

 

July 16, 2004

 

I think the author should have been mentioned by fairness in the "Reference's"

 

Eric

There's an updated version in the articles section of this very board - and yes, he plagiarized my article extensively (except that I never mentioned that nonsense "navy polish" thing) ....

[Jim P]

Guido I am sorry to hear that, It is hard sometimes to work out what is fact and what is fiction. I am glad we have the board !

I like a lot of people are grateful that you are helping us, so it must be disappointing. Thank you for your input with out it we

would be a lot poorer Jim

[Eric H]

History of Sword Polishing...excerpt from an article

 

A description of sword polishing is seen in a document called 'Engi-shiki' was written in 905 for the first time. Meanwhile, the oldest recognisable polishing on a Tanto (or dagger) was discovered from inside the body of a Buddha image made in 1274. The Tanto was polished with one of the finishing stones called Uchigumori and Migaki or a kind of burnishing was done on a part of the blade. In this case, Tsuya (or finger polishing with thin and tiny pieces of finishing stone called 'Narutaki') and Nugui ( or polishing powder) seem not to have been employed. But it is speculated that there was already a similar method to modern finishing work in that period.

 

(Completion of sword polishing)

It seems that the traditional sword polishing we can see today was completed by the mid 10th Century. In a history book called 'Kanchi-in Bon' which describes the history of the early 14th Century, sword polishers' name were seen for the first time.

In the book there are two polishers' name called 'Kunihiro' and 'Tamesada' who were chosen by the ex-Emperor Gotoba in order to polish the swords made by Goban-kaji who were designated the monthly smiths who worked for the ex-Emperor. Incidentally the ex-Emperor Gotoba had a profound knowledge of the Japanese sword and was an expert of sword appreciation. The description proves that the sword polishing which makes the sword appreciation, possible had been completed by then.

Since then the word 'Polishing' began to be used for sword polishing, thus it definitely had a different meaning from grinding or sharpening of edged tools. It is now thought that three stages of sword polishing already existed in the early Heian period of the mid 9th Century.

 

(Sword polishing and artistic value of the Japanese sword)

From the previous description we can speculate that they already had a recognition that the Japanese is not only an excellent weapon but also one of fine arts in the early 13th Century.

When we talk about the practical aspect of a sword, finishing work with extremely fine stone is not necessarily needed and the stage of a middle grain stone called Nagura would be ideal to make the sword work practically. Furthermore, polishing stages after the Nagura stone were developed in order to enhance the artistic value and expose mysterious beauty of the Japanese sword.

The unique finishing work using Uchigumori and Narutaki stones is the only way to bring out the patterns of the Jihada and the Hamon properly. In fact, we have no other option. In a sense, it might be said that the artistic value of the Japanese sword was established and has been appreciated highly because of this exceptional sword polishing.

 

Eric

[Brian]

Excellent info Eric. Do you perhaps have a credited source, as this would make a great addition to the FAQ.

 

Brian

[Jacques]

Hi,

 

The source is here

 

http://kobuse.blogspot.com/2009/02/hist ... g-and.html

 

About 'Kunihiro' and 'Tamesada', visiting the Baur Museum in Geneva i've been told, they are swordsmiths and not polishers.

[Eric H]

Indeed the source of my contribution is that blogspot. There is no author named, but the following sentence points most likely to Kenji Mishina as author.

 

Actually I am a sword polisher belong to the Hon-ami school as my teacher Nagayama Kokan learnt sword polishing from Hon-ami Koson who succeeded as head of one of the Hon-ami families.

 

BTW I'm surprised to hear that unknown people from the Baur Museum allegedly know more than the author of this article...what a nonsense

 

Eric

[Jacques]

Hi,

 

BTW I'm surprised to hear that unknown people from the Baur Museum allegedly know more than the author of this article...what a nonsense

 

I just quoted the location, not the person who told me this fact.

[Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini]

excerpt from an article

A description of sword polishing is seen in a document called 'Engi-shiki' was written in 905 for the first time. Meanwhile, the oldest recognisable polishing on a Tanto (or dagger) was discovered from inside the body of a Buddha image made in 1274. The Tanto was polished with one of the finishing stones called Uchigumori and Migaki or a kind of burnishing was done on a part of the blade. In this case, Tsuya (or finger polishing with thin and tiny pieces of finishing stone called 'Narutaki') and Nugui ( or polishing powder) seem not to have been employed. But it is speculated that there was already a similar method to modern finishing work in that period.

 

Informations on this very Tanto polishing confirmed by both Suenaga and Masakuni.

Can't say about the speculations mentioned. Seems to remember it was in the oldest surviving shirasaya ever, but I'm at work and can't check.

 

And just as an add-on, similar level of polishing were achieved in the IX century C.E. (and

before) not only in China but even in Europe.

 

NOT the same level of polishing of today's top ones but still more than enough to consider them as a way to appreciate the finest swords under an artistical point of view.

[Jacques]

Hi,

 

Extracted from Guido's article :

 

During the mid 10'th Century the basis for the traditional sword polishing we see today was developed (except for the Kaisei stone, a rather recent addition). Honami Kôtoku introduced burnishing around 1600 AD. However, a polish beyond the Shitaji stage only brings out the artistic qualities and doesn't contribute much to the "cutting ability" of the sword, so most swords never saw the Shiage stages, which meant additional work, and therefore additional time and cost. Only during the peaceful Edo period became this kind of refined polish more or less the standard.

 

http://www.una.edu/faculty/takeuchi/DrT ... ishing.htm

[Carlo Giuseppe Tacchini]

Hi,

 

Extracted from Guido's article :

 

most swords never saw the Shiage stages,

 

the finest swords under an artistical point of view.

 

Enphasis is mine.

 

Also the period matches with Europe's and Chinas's suggestions given hereabove.

 

Would like to add that Toshin Sugata, nakago sugata, nakago finishing, Kissaki shape and

mekugiana dimension and position of the above mentioned blade all address to a blade

earlier than 13th century. The attribution of the date is given by a document found together

with the blade, but if this was made as a shrine offer and well maintained before to

be "buried" inside the Buddha, we can't say. The original polish could have been indeed

earlier but it was decided to stay safe and considering it as made at the moment of

dedication.