Is this a real deal wakizashi?

[ehk]

I came across this wakizashi and was wondering if this is a good one and what it Approx. would be worth. I already had contact with the seller but before I continue the contact I would like to ask if this is a good or bad one.

 

I know the photo's are terrible but it's the only ones I have at the moment. I will ask for better ones if this wakizashi could be a good one.

 

Is there anything that could be said about this wakizashi? I have no knowledge yet to make my own decisions. The seller says that the Kozuka is not part of the sale.

 

 

 

[estcrh]

I came across this Tanto and was wondering if this is a good one

By good one do you mean a real nihonto? You would need to show pictures of the blade and nakago before anyone could tell you for sure and if you want any further comments. Here is a link to a sword glossary if you do not know the names of the individual parts. http://members.shaw.ca/nihontonut/glossary.html

[ehk]

Thanks, will ask for additional photo's first then.

[Brian]

Rick,

Nothing at all can be told from those pics. It is all about the blade.

You need close-ups of the blade and the nakago. Without those, I couldn't tell you if this is worth $50 or $5000.

I don't like what is being hinted on the cutting edge from the one pic. Are those signs that it has been ground and sharpened? Doesn't look right..given the shadow that is appearing there.

 

Brian

[ehk]

Your right Brian, I understand that better pictures are needed, should of asked for those in the first place. The photo with the blade on it does not really show anything. I have asked for better photo's. Hope I can learn as much as possible out of my topic here Eventually buying it or not.

[estcrh]

Asking for additional pictures of a particular area of a blade is also a good way to find out if the seller is actually in possession of the sword.

[ehk]

To be very honest I am beginning to have my doubts about this seller but we will see if I get the requested photo's.

[estcrh]

I would recommend looking in the for sale adds or post a wanted add on the forum before I looked any were else first, I have seen some excellent deals here lately. The longer you wait and the more you learn the better the chance of not regretting your future purchase ( I wish I knew then what I know now)

[Jean]

I hate to give a price, this look to be real Nihonto, taking into account the pictures, the mountings, no more than 150$ and in my opinion it is even a challenge.

[ehk]

Thanks for the help Jean, the seller wants at least 400 dollars for it. So that is quite a difference, I guess I will leave it at the seller for now until I get better photo's. But still hope to get the photo's so I can learn from then. If I get the photo's I will post them here.

[Jean]

Rick,

 

You have to take into account the following things :

 

- Saya (sheath) is opened and doesn't protect any more the blade , the ito is totally worn out, the Tosogu (Tsuba, F/K ...) are ruined, The cost of repairing it by qualified cerftsman is over 2000$ rather >3000$ including polishing.

[ehk]

Against my expectations I did get a reply from the seller. She says she has no real knowledge of Japanese Swords so I don't want to ask her to take it apart yet. I really need to study first but thought I'd share these photo's still.

 

The photo's perhaps are still not good but at least better then the ones I first posted. I have really large versions of the photo's as well. These photo's show what Jean mentioned already it will cost a pretty penny to get it into shape again.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Can anything more be said about the Wakizashi? Or do I have to ask the seller to remove the Tsuka and make photo's of the Nakago?

[drbvac]

I wouldn't bother .

[Brian]

I'm looking at that space that was left for a kozuka, and comparing it with the relative width, length and shape of the blade, and possibly thinking this could be a boy's sword. The blade looks slender and small. Any measurements?

 

Brian

[ehk]

In the sellers adverb it only says it's length is 50 CM. When this is worth learning from I can of course ask for the exact measurements.

[cabowen]

You will learn much more from $400 worth of books than from this worn and out of polish sword...

[ehk]

I know, I am not planning to buy this Wakizashi. But I would like to learn from it while I posted it anyway. Spent a few dollars on books already yesterday but it's well worth the money. I am sure that one day I will be confident enough to buy a true Nihonto sword

[estcrh]

No one has mentioned that you approached this sword in the right way, acknowledging that you were not informed enough on the subject you asked for informed opinions on a forum were you thought people with experience would help you. That is so much better then the people who have already purchased a bad condition, overpriced, or even fake sword and then have to hear the truth about their mistake.

 

There is nothing wrong with checking out different swords you see for sale in a price that you feel you could afford and then trying to find the flaws and faults in those swords in an effort to gain more understanding and knowledge. Make a list of the sites you see being recommended and look at what is for sale and how they are described and how they are presented for viewing and along with reading this forum and some basic books you will eventually be able to see for yourself if a sword is real and worth the price being asked for it.

[ehk]

Thanks Eric,

 

I of course don't want to bother you all to much as I know I have to learn myself in stead of asking all the time. But it is nice to know I can ask questions if I need advice or need help. I am looking forward to learn as much as I can. And together with the info from the forum and it's members, I know that eventually I will find a nice true Nihonto sword for a fair price.

 

Looking forward to get my books and start studying. I like to check out the sites and compare but I know the backbone of it all are the books. So I will first start reading and from there on we will see.

 

Thanks!

[Eric H]

Asking for an advice is OK.

 

Well, regarding this wakizashi, which in fact is a wreck, the blade as well as the koshirae. It is a well known rule which says „not to spoil the eyes by looking at low quality swords“... instead to study the best...(from this wakizashi nothing can be seen)...that is however very difficult except for those who can look at them at first hand presentations at sword clubs or at kantei.

 

Secondly, the opinion to learn on the quality of swords by learning their „defects“ is a completely wrong approach...the other and right way inter alia is to learn about the beauties of a sword...that requires a sword in full professional polish.

 

The web on the other hand offers the opportunity to see pictures of first quality swords.

 

Eric

[ehk]

Thanks for your advice Eric,

 

Secondly, the opinion to learn on the quality of swords by learning their „defects“ is a completely wrong approach...the other and right way inter alia is to learn about the beauties of a sword...that requires a sword in full professional polish.

 

That is true, as for now even if I do compare them without the real knowledge it is useless. I can understand that I first have to learn at all about the true Nihonto sword, it's features, beauty etc. But while learning I do think it is nice to get some practice online as well in the future. In the short time I am on NMB I learned (thanks to all the advice I got here) that books are the backbone, the rest comes later. So that's where I will start.

[ehk]

Forgot to mention that I know it is not just learning trying to distinguish real from fake. It's learning about a great art, markmanship and superb and beautiful weapon. That should be the base, that later on you learn how you can distinguish real from fake is a necessity for buying a true Nihonto sword.

[Jamie]

Rick,

 

You might look at this link. It's doubtful you'll make that mistake again after comparing these pictures.

http://jssus.org/nkp/fake_japanese_swords.html

 

Jamie

[ehk]

Thanks Jamie, that is very useful info indeed!

[Lindus]

I saw this and would say that at that price it was "As cheap as Frites" the blade would polish, the saya is easily repaired and worth a go. The current situation in the sword world of only buying assured items is foolish,throw a few sheckles at it and have some fun .

Roy

[estcrh]

the opinion to learn on the quality of swords by learning their „defects“ is a completely wrong approach...the other and right way inter alia is to learn about the beauties of a sword...that requires a sword in full professional polish.

not to spoil the eyes by looking at low quality swords

 

It seems that swords with any faults are worthless and if you can not afford a "perfect sword" you should not bother. Do not bother learning how to spot flaws and faults because you should only be looking at "perfect" blades and they do not have any faults or flaws, you might go blind if you even look at a less then perfect blade. In other words most people should just throw the swords they have away as they are just so much trash taking up space. FUN is not an option.

[sanjuro]

I saw this and would say that at that price it was "As cheap as Frites" the blade would polish, the saya is easily repaired and worth a go. The current situation in the sword world of only buying assured items is foolish,throw a few sheckles at it and have some fun .

Roy

 

Really? Thats fine if you have a few thousand to throw at it for a polish and possibly another grand for a decent saya and tsuka. With somewhat better quality items you can justify that sort of expense, but not with this one. I'm all for enjoying this hobby, but there is a huge price in lost opportunity to pay for just having 'fun' like some latterday schoolboy, learning nothing and gaining nothing.

 

In this case the blade may not handle polish. We have no way of knowing. If it is a boys sword as it seems to be, then it has limited possibilities for learning anything from. If it is not a boys sword then the slender blade suggests it has already had enough polishes. Again, nothing to learn from. So what price does your 'fun' come at?

[Lee Bray]

It's my opinion that "fun" is an important element of NihonTo study during the initial stages of appreciation.

One is not born with a love of NihonTo, and from my experience, it is an acquired taste.

 

Entry level into this field is financially daunting; US$1-2000 on beginners books before a blade, then a blade from a reputable dealer in polish with papers is minimum 2k nowadays - a few years back it was probably 20-40% more expensive.

To spend US$4k minimum on the basics of a hobby you may not stick with is a big step.

 

Research is part of that initial fun. If your blade is papered and polished then that work is done and the blade just needs appreciation. Something that a rank beginner will know little about.

Having an unknown blade in your hand and trawling through your seemingly incomprehensible books at 3 in the morning is part of the learning experience, imo. It's the sort of experience that makes you want more.

It doesn't necessarily make you a good student or even teach you anything about NihonTo but it tells you that you want to be doing this 20 years from now.

 

Now, I'm not advocating buying cheap rusty blades, I'm just stating that I think a catalyst is needed for the beginner to develop their learning beyond that initial enthusiasm.

Is it better for a beginner to spend US$5000 on books and their first blade in polish only to lose interest and possibly let the blade go rusty/get scratched or is it better to spend $500 on a cheap blade and develop from there? Of course, either could lose interest but in the second option at least no good blades get damaged.

 

That also brings up the point - 'Should a good blade be in the hands of a beginner anyway?'

[sanjuro]

Good point Lee!

There is certainly a case to be made against beginners owning top quality blades. Apart from a lack of real appreciation/knowledge on the part of the majority of beginners, there is also the lack of knowledge on how to handle and maintain a blade correctly. There is however a level of quality that can not only teach the beginner a great deal but also have some value as a collection piece in a beginners collection. The level of the blade in this thread is I think below that minimum level of quality. The blade condition itself is poor and apparently shows too little of the hada and ha detail to be a good research or study piece. Who knows that it may be a perfectly good blade? but that will not become evident without a great deal of restoration - an expensive undertaking for a beginner with no guarantee of a good result.

Lesser blades but in good condition are prolific enough on the market and it is there I feel the beginner can make the most of his acquisitions in a study and research capacity. Hopefully, such a blade often gets passed to another beginner when its owner has learned from it and moved on to a higher level. To me this is just common sense. A little more invested in a better but not high quality blade now, is better than less money possibly thrown away on a blade of no or questionable quality that will yield nothing to its owner and possibly cost him more to restore before it has any real value. This with no guarantee whatsoever of any quality at all. Worst case scenario: A dissappointment would be a great disincentive for a beginner to continue in the hobby.

[ehk]

Someone asked me if this Wakizashi was still available but it is sold. And I am happy I did not buy it. I got good advice from all of you and the coming few years it will be studying/reading for me in stead of thinking about buying a blade. I am not reading with the idea that this will make me a expert, far from that. I do however hope it will learn me the basics and that it will learn me how to really appreciate Nihonto. From there on we will see how things go. I will not be able to buy a Nihonto for a few years anyway as I just don't have that kind of money laying around and that I guess is a good thing.

 

Thanks to all for the advice and taking part in this topic!