SF Shinsa question.

[xxlotus8xx]

Greetings,

I have a blade that I have registered for Shinsa in SF and I was hoping for some advise from people who have been through the process. The blade itself has many characteristics of late kamakura era and the mei is signed "Sagami no ju Yukimitsu". My concern is because the blade has not been polished it will not be easy to validate important characteristics of the era/smith/school/forge. It has been recomended to just wait for Shinsa before going through a polish but would it not be better to at least have a portion polished to bring out some of the more important characteristics?

I think the term is called 'window polish'. I have seen this recommended to other board members and figured it might be a good idea.

Also there are other aspects of the sword that have been revealed that could help with the identification. Should this not somehow be submitted as well or will they just know?

 

The related threads are here.

Menuki that is not menuki.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7769

 

Initial post.

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=7303

 

OK I now know it is not a Gunto but I am also having a hard time classifying the type. To short for Katana? Not quite Wakizashi, so Tachi?

 

As always your help is greatly appreciated.

[xxlotus8xx]

Hmm...the more I read the more I'm thinking that the advise I got was good. IE..."Be patient and wait".

[Mark]

if i understand your question, you are asking if you should submit the sword to the SF shinsa... Yukimitsu is clearly a "big" name so going carefully is wise. As the blade is signed you could submit it. I have not seen it to judge condition, but the shinsa team should be able to give an opinion on the mei. If they think it is genuine, but can not see enough of the work, they will tell you that. If they say it is gimei you may be able to ask they why if you are at the shinsa (or they may note the reason). Then you can go from there, i am not saying one NO means it is bad, if you feel it is genuine you can go further. But having the shinsa team here is an advantage and with so much upside (if you really think it is good) there is no reason not to submit it.

[xxlotus8xx]

Thanks Mark. I have already registered the blade for Shinsa. And I think I will wait until then to make next decisions such as polish etc...I have been told that "there is an embarrassing amount of information that will be available." And being that I am full on Nihonto newbie I hope to take advantage of that.

 

The blade pics are here.

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/xxlotus8xx ... 719267187/

[Pete Klein]

http://ncjsc.org/NCJSC_meetings.htm

 

NCJSC is having a meeting tomorrow. Why not ask them there as you live in the area?

[Mark]

seeing the pictures of the tang i think it will not be hard to get a clear answer. In my "opinion" there is no way this sword was made circa 1300 by Yukimitsu. The hole in the tang appears to have been drilled, and not that long ago, the mei is too crisp (signed katana-mei) and the shape, length etc are wrong. My guess would be it was made circa 1930. sorry, hope i am wrong

[xxlotus8xx]

http://ncjsc.org/NCJSC_meetings.htm

 

NCJSC is having a meeting tomorrow. Why not ask them there as you live in the area?

 

Your a genius. Thanks! I think that is a great idea! And I will be there.

[xxlotus8xx]

seeing the pictures of the tang i think it will not be hard to get a clear answer. In my "opinion" there is no way this sword was made circa 1300 by Yukimitsu. The hole in the tang appears to have been drilled, and not that long ago, the mei is too crisp (signed katana-mei) and the shape, length etc are wrong. My guess would be it was made circa 1930. sorry, hope i am wrong

 

Hi Mark. Tang drilled? Do you mean the mekugi-ana? Upon inspection it looks to be punched out. The mei doesn't really appear that crisp and it took a lot of lighting to get that picture. But we'll see.

Perhaps you can point me to an example of a blade from this period?

Thanks!

 

Ray

[cabowen]

While I don't necessarily believe the blade was made in the 1930's, what Mark has said bears listening to....Save your shinsa money and take it to the club meeting for confirmation....I am sure you will hear Mark's comments confirmed...

[xxlotus8xx]

Trust me. I am under no illusion that this is a 14th century blade. It 's possible but not probable. I do find it quite ballsy to sign with Soshu Yukimitsu. But I think with most Nihonto owners, the real mystery is finding out the history. The military insignia pins that were in the menuki position are from the "Taisei Yokusankai" only fuels the mystery as this was from the government...

I do look forward to tomorrow's meeting!

[sanjuro]

Hi Ray.

 

Just a little puzzled as to a part of your original question.

OK I now know it is not a Gunto but I am also having a hard time classifying the type. To short for Katana? Not quite Wakizashi, so Tachi?

 

Tachi are generally the same size or longer than a Katana, so if its too short for a katana it is unlikely to be a tachi. Your sword however, is signed Katana mei. The signature appears on the side of the blade which would face outward when being worn. ie. on a tachi it appears on the side that is outward when worn slung edge downward from the waist. On a katana it would appear on the side that would face outward when the sword is worn edge uppermost, thrust through the obi. This applies as a general rule and would only vary had the sword been made as a tachi and then been shortened so as not to lose the mei, but to remount the sword as a katana.

[xxlotus8xx]

Hi Keith,

Thanks for the reply as this is all good information. As I have stated before I am only starting to study and to attempt to get my head around a complicated study.

The blade nagasa measures a hair over 21 inches. This is less that 2 shaku which would put it in the wakizashi range. But the blade shape doesn't have wakizashi characteristics. Sooo...chisa-katana??

[sanjuro]

:D Chisa Katana or O wakizashi would do as an interim classification. A good sword is never a bad length. Shinsa would nail it down exactly. Its more important now for you to get an indication as to age, school, whether or not it seems to be gimei and so forth, so that you can make other evaluations such as suitability for shinsa, polishing etc. The sword club evaluation will most certainly help in that regard. One step at a time.............

[Pete Klein]

Let us know how the meeting went...

[xxlotus8xx]

The meeting was extremely informative and I must thank Tom Helm (and another gentleman who's name I didn't catch) for taking the time to speak with me about the blade and tsuba.

Blade seems to have Bizen/Edo period characteristics which means the mei is mumei but we all knew that already. Mainly for the reason that there are no blades with a soshu yukimitsu mei. And the tang shape is of bizen, not soshu/sagami characteristics.

Tsuba could be earlier that Edo and some expert advise was given on how to get some of the rust off.

It was recommended to not submit the blade to Shinsa for kan-tai and to save the 100.00. And that a professional polishing would not add any value per-say as iot would be hard to get around the wear and tear. But might merrit further investigation at Shinsa as well as a tsuka rewrapping/restoral. My goal is to at least get the sword in the best condition as possible as I have recieved it form my grand-dad and put together a display with his metals, the captured flags...and the sword.

So the research continues as the more answers we have the more questions come out. But that's what this is all about for most of us. Right??

[Stephen]

which means the mei is mumei but we all knew that already

 

Ray I'm sure you meant gimei, and know you have a lot of new words running around in your head.

 

Glad you sought professional help, Thanks to Tom and his friend. I like that your saving it for display with Gdads stuff. WTG

[xxlotus8xx]

which means the mei is mumei but we all knew that already

 

Ray I'm sure you meant gimei, and know you have a lot of new words running around in your head.

 

Glad you sought professional help, Thanks to Tom and his friend. I like that your saving it for display with Gdads stuff. WTG

 

EXACTLY! And ya..New words, timelines, events, a whole new other history.

Thanks Stephen. And Happy Fathers day to all!

[Jacques]

Hi,

 

To be clear, this blade cannot be made by THE Soshu Yukimitsu for three reasons.

 

1 - Shinogi zukuri wakizashi didn't exist at that time.

 

2 - All extant works by Yukimitsu bear nijimei

 

3 - All extent works from this smith bearing an engraved mei are tanto.

 

 

Maybe a sue-koto one