magical mystery tour

[Bungo]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... &rd=1&rd=1

 

ok, forget the patina ( that's the magical part to be presented later and i ain't talking about Der ombudaman's 375.00 restoration bill ).

Opinion as to school needed, Kyo-sukashi ?

 

milt the ronin

[John A Stuart]

Hi Milt, Reminds me of a Showa period copy of a kyo-sukashi tsuba. I guess you'll know more when you get the red coat off. Luck, John

Speaking of which is your magic show - poker chips and tumbler?

[Martin]

Hey Milt,

 

seems to look very similar to that one, doesn´t it ?

At least from the design

http://www.militaria.co.za/nihontomessa ... .php?t=680

 

cheers,

Martin

[Bungo]

Hey Milt,

 

seems to look very similar to that one, doesn´t it ?

At least from the design

http://www.militaria.co.za/nihontomessa ... .php?t=680

 

cheers,

Martin

 

ya, I checked Haynes catalog and they have a few similar design, Haynes called it originally a Kyo sukashi design with many different schools using the pattern.

I don't think it's modan as in showa period................

 

Since it has been ' vandalised " already, i reckon no one will accuse me of playing with a " potential " national treasure. The magical show is to see if i can " turn " the patina.......................

 

milt the ronin

[Bungo]

here it is............. looks like someone " plated " some silver stuffs on it or dipped it in acid to hasten the rust removal, anyway the patina is all shot...........

 

I will attempt to re-patinate/work /play with it on one side only........

 

milt the ronin

[uwe]

....looks a little bit like cast iron. On the other hand, the appearance of the surface and the red rust spots indicates that someone before used acid to remove the old rust.

Only my 2cents

Uwe

[Bungo]

not cast but acid dipped.................. still working on it, patina slowly coming back.

 

milt the ronin

[uwe]

good luck for recovering the patina milt

Uwe

[Martin]

Milt,

 

good luck from me too. Keep us informed about the progress.

BTW what school and age is this Tsuba (you added on 21.01.) attributed to?

The Seppa-dai looks different and the walls are of a finer design compared to the "Kyo-Sukashi-Akasaka" one.

 

cheers,

[Bungo]

slowly but surely the patina is taking.............. no, I didn't use " plum brown " and/or Indian ink/black shoe polish............

 

now it's out on the balcony for some auto fume/air pollution to finish the job !!

 

milt the ronin

[Bungo]

" what school and age is this Tsuba (you added on 21.01.) attributed to?"

 

the book didn't say the era, only Kyo-sukashi.

 

I think I got that pic from one of the Shibata 100 tsuba books.................

 

 

milt the ronin

[Bungo]

slowly but surely....................

Chicago air does wonders

 

milt the ronin

[Ford Hallam]

Hi Milt,

 

just thought I'd throw in a thought. As Uwe quite correctly pointed out, this tsuba had it's patina removed with acid. As such the surface is now very porous, which is why it looks like cast iron. I'd suggest burnishing the surface before allowing the patina to develop any further. Actually I'd suggest burnishing the surface before you begin to repatinate. Burnishing will compress the surface and help create a more glossy and deep patina.

Leaving the surface as is will also render it very susceptible to further corrosion. Most jewellery (sic) supply stores will be able to sell you a decent burnisher.

 

hope this is of some help.

regards, Ford

p.s. perhaps the burnishing is what cost $375!

[Rich T]

going to chip in on this but as Ford has already said what I was thinking, well, too late. Yes, that porous pitting is not good, and has ruined the tsuba in my opinion.

 

However Ford, would not the acid ( if acid has been used ) have effected the sukashi walls as well as the hira ?, even with brushing acid, some must have got down inside the sukashi. I cannot image burnishing the inside of the sukashi without totally destroying the tsuba. For those not following me, the inside of the sukashi, i.e. the walls, are held just as sacred as the nakago on a sword. Take that original patina/rust of and presto, any value in the tsuba is gone.

 

Is it just me, or has this one bit the dust ?????

 

Cheers

 

Rich

[Bungo]

well, I do have a trick of giving it a " wet sheen " look ( Skip H. approved too !! ), the cut out is thin so there's not much about pittings to be seen there.

 

milt the ronin

[Ford Hallam]

Hi Rich,

 

I don't think the insides of the sukashi are recoverable in this instance and short of actually re-filing the inner faces ( the metal that remains is probably too thin anyway ) I don't know what else could be done. I'd have to agree with your assessment of it's age related qualities too.

 

Milt,

I know of one pretty effective way of creating a very glossy finish, and one that will prevent any further corrosion. You could get it chromed! :D . Actually, that might be a possibility to consider, there's no accounting for taste after all .

 

good luck, Ford

[Rich T]

black chrome, the modern equivalent of Shakudo LOL

 

Rich

[Bungo]

ford,

actually there's no problem with the inside of the sukashi....all dark brown rust.

 

There's no fire scales damage and actually it's quite easy to restore the darn thing, of course it'll never looks like Momoyama era patina but that's not I am aiming for...............

 

milt the ronin

[Stever]

Well I'm no expert by any stretch but geez, Milt, that looks pretty good to me. What's your secret, is it all down to the magical Chicago air?

[Bungo]

Stever,

If you look closely at the seppa dai area, you see some " patches " of different patina " intensity "..............but that's only under direct sunlight.

 

Whoever owned this thing before put it to some harsh treatment and I have to promote some natural rust ( in this case red rust ) to neutralise the effect to the iron surface............. it seems like the Chicago dirty air did the job of rust promotion handily ( 2 months out on the balcony, no dirct moisture/rain ). Once the tsuba was coated with uniform red active rust, I burnish it with some tool ( , being a dentist, we do know how to burnish things, yes, Pete ? )and most of the pittings are gone ( but not totally eliminated, that would be impossible unless I take out the " handpiece " , another dentist's joke ).

I also find out passing the rusty tsuba over the kitchen stove will turn the red color to dark brown/black ( cool it then clean with chogi oil )...............

still experimenting with this and fuc%$#$ing up a potential national treasure !!

 

p.s. there's a solution( liquid ) that promotes patina, like the sword polisher's ( yes, they have that, how do you think they can take out the mei and return swords to owner within a reasonable period of time ? ).......... that helps too.

 

milt the ronin

[Stever]

Thanks, Milt. Before getting into nihonto, I never in a million years would've thought that there could be an art to rusting something, hehe. Pretty cool. I can kind of see the different shades you're referring to, but it still looks a damn sight better than it did to start with!

 

BTW, 'Steve' will do, 'R' is my last initial.

 

cheers

[Martin]

Hey Milt,

 

that´s a really interesting and admirable job you´ve done so far ;o)

I recently purchased a Momoyama period Kyo Sukashi Tsuba that in some small areas shows a worn-off patina (the bright steel shines through). Maybe it has been rubbed too intensively...

Is there a slightly less intense way to build up the patina on these areas? I do not have a balcony here nor do I plan to hide it somewhere in the park opposite to my apartment :lol:

 

Any helpful advice would be highly appreciated.

 

cheers,

Martin

[Bungo]

I recently purchased a Momoyama period Kyo Sukashi Tsuba that in some small areas shows a worn-off patina (the bright steel shines through). Maybe it has been rubbed too intensively...

Is there a slightly less intense way to build up the patina on these areas? I do not have a balcony here nor do I plan to hide it somewhere in the park opposite to my apartment :lol:

 

Any helpful advice would be highly appreciated.

 

cheers,

Martin

 

you need........... " there's a solution( liquid ) that promotes patina, like the sword polisher's ( yes, they have that, how do you think they can take out the mei and return swords to owner within a reasonable period of time ? ).......... that helps too. "

 

or

let time takes it's time :lol: ( a very long time )

 

but I wouldn't let it rust, pass it over the stove and all that......... that's only for patient that's comatose ; and your's only have small patches of shiny iron, I'd say let time heals unless you can bring it to Chicago and .............

 

milt the ronin

[Stever]

you need........... " there's a solution( liquid ) that promotes patina...

 

You mean like this stuff?

 

http://www.sculptnouveau.com/traditional.html

[Martin]

but I wouldn't let it rust, pass it over the stove and all that......... that's only for patient that's comatose ; and your's only have small patches of shiny iron, I'd say let time heals unless you can bring it to Chicago and .............

 

Milt,

yes, mine is far away from being comatose

But I heard that some people put it on the window-sill (the one inside of course) next to a damp cloth and rub it with a cotton cloth from day to day.

What does the "Patina Conjuring Dentist" think :lol: ?

 

cheers,

Martin

[Bungo]

Steve,

I don't know if the commercial stuffs work properly.

From what I understand, the sword polishers have their little " secret " formulae.............

As a side note, Herr Ando from the land of the gods was spotted purchasing " plum brown ".......... I heard that from secondary sources so it's heresay.

 

milt the ronin

[Bungo]

" But I heard that some people put it on the window-sill (the one inside of course) next to a damp cloth and rub it with a cotton cloth from day to day.

What does the "Patina Conjuring Dentist" think ? "

 

since I am still on the good side of a sword polisher............I can speed things up a little.

 

Not sure about the damp cloth part though, I'd say if the shiny spots are small, just leave it alone for a while ( or get on the good side of a sword polisher and beg for a little of that liquid gold )

 

milt the ronin