Some help needed with Shin-Gunto mei and Kokuin on Tang - Yoshida Kaneaki?

[tbonesullivan]

As best I can tell, the tang is signed 関  吉 田 兼 明 - SEKI  YOSHIDA KANEAKI. I found an oshigata with similar style, though it has another character JU. I can't find anything on the kokuin though. Is it for a school and not a smith?

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[YourBabyBjornBorg]

Ah, 惜っしい! The last Kanji is 門/Kado/door, so this is 関吉田兼門 Seki Yoshida Kanekado.

[tbonesullivan]

7 hours ago, YourBabyBjornBorg said:

Ah, 惜っしい! The last Kanji is 門/Kado/door, so this is 関吉田兼門 Seki Yoshida Kanekado.

 

It doesn't look quite like the oshigata for Yoshida Kanekado I found on the Japanese sword index.  I also found some other KANEKADO examples, and the last character is definitely different. I also can't find anything on that Kokuin for either KANEAKI or a KANEKADO. Definitely not saying your wrong, as that last character, and others, are definitely hard to read. In terms of research I can find a lot more on Yoshida Kanekado, as I can't find anything on a Yoshida Kaneaki.
 

 

and another here:

https://nihontoclub.com/discussions/images/19589/19590

[SteveM]

Kanekado is correct. There are several ways to write each kanji, some forms use abbreviated strokes, or "calligraphic" reductions of kanji. Also, with these wartime blades the blades are often signed by people working under the supervision of a smith, so you see a lot of variation. And the collecting world doesn't really micro-analyze these differences with the wartime smiths, because the quality of the work is kind of homogeneous, with the exception of some individual smiths (or, blades that feature some unique kind of steel). For the majority of wartime blades, the work is optimized for volume production in factory-like conditions, and the swords are oil-quenched to reduce the possibility of breaking. The steel is often industrial, mass-produced steel, rather than tamahagane. So collectors tend not to fret too much over the precise stroke angle/depth/construction for the individual kanji characters on the names of these wartime smiths. 

 

The hot stamp is a stylized representation of a Buddhist "ken" (a sword used by the Buddhist figure of Fudō-Myō-ō). If you look in Bruce Pennington's sword stamp survey, you can find another example of it. (Should be a link to that survey at the top banner of this site.)

 

adding the link. Look around page 28, 29. 

 

[Bruce Pennington]

Yes, just found it myself.  This is a much better example than the only other one I've got.  I'll use it to update the Stamps doc, if you don't mind.  

I looked through both the Kaneaki and Kanekado I have on file, and like Steve said, they are all a bit messy.  But the kanji in this one is the same family name as the Kanekado listed on JSI: 

兼門 (Kanekado)    吉田 徳市

[tbonesullivan]

1 hour ago, Bruce Pennington said:

Yes, just found it myself.  This is a much better example than the only other one I've got.  I'll use it to update the Stamps doc, if you don't mind.  

I looked through both the Kaneaki and Kanekado I have on file, and like Steve said, they are all a bit messy.  But the kanji in this one is the same family name as the Kanekado listed on JSI: 

兼門 (Kanekado)    吉田 徳市

 

Would you like a better quality / higher resolution picture of the seal? This is what it was like before I shrunk it, but I could get a better detail shot if you want.

 

Also I wonder if there's any way to contact the person who runs the JSI to tell them that the Kaneaki (Yoshida) on the oshigata page is probably another Kanekado.

 

Edited Thursday at 03:19 PM by tbonesullivan

[Bruce Pennington]

Thanks David!  I've updated the Stamps doc.  Definitely looks better.

 

JSI was set up by Richard Stein who passed away a couple years ago.  It's kept alive by Brian, but he's not able to make changes to the site.  I've found a couple of errors, too.  But, such it is with all our top level references, right?

[Brian]

I'm able and willing to make changes. That comes with the territory. If people want to send me corrections and the page they are on, I'll do the necessary.
Can I confirm the Kanekado change above?

[Bruce Pennington]

Sesko doesn't list a Kanetada using that kanji for 'tada, plus the JSI 'Showa Seki Tosho' page does list the Yoshida name for Kanetada.  Plus it matches another blade I have filed under Kanetada with the same kokuin. 

Got my vote.

[mecox]

Yoshida Kanekado:  in 1937 Gifu report has him with some confusion.

10. 兼徳 Kanetoku (吉田 徳市 Yoshida Tokuichi) ( 兼徳 looks to be an error, cannot find the tosho. Based on 吉田 & 徳市 it is probably Kanekado) (兼門 Kanekado 吉田 徳市 Yoshida Tokuichi) From 1937 report: address is Seki-machi, Kou 1004. Has 1 deshi in 1937. 1937 history: Meiji 40 (1907) in Seki-machi studied under Kuni-i Tomekichi (OR Tomeyoshi) [hard to read]. Independent in Taisho 8 (1919). [If he became a deshi at age 13 in 1907, would be born in 1894. So if independent in 1919 is age 25. Reasonable in theory]. Although data for Kanekado (1939) does not fully match it is more likely: born: Meiji 39 (1906) March 21; Reg: Showa 14 (1939) Oct 26 (age 33). Address in 1939: Seki-machi, Kasuga-cho. Other information for Kanekado: was a student of Kuriyama Kaneaki (栗山兼明) (#18) 1941: 6th Shinsaku Nihonto Denrankai , 5th level of 5. 1942: Tosho Banzuke 6th level of 7 (Chuge Saku). Died Showa 44 (1969) Sept 6 age 62. Hawley: KAN 1077 (student of Kaneaki), 1101. JSS: p. 43. Example mei: Kanekado 兼門 Yoshida Kanekado 吉田兼門 Seki ju Yoshida Kanekado 関住吉田兼門 (plus kokuin).

 

A good example in Slough:

[tbonesullivan]

23 hours ago, Brian said:

I'm able and willing to make changes. That comes with the territory. If people want to send me corrections and the page they are on, I'll do the necessary.
Can I confirm the Kanekado change above?

I had a graphic designer friend make a fixed version. It's the "Kaneaki (Yoshida)" listed on this page: https://www.japaneseswordindex.com/oshigata/index.htm

 

Should be another "Kanekado (Yoshida)"

[Brian]

Thanks David, will sort it out tomorrow. Appreciate it!