Examples of early Meiji period koshirae

[jdawg221]

I have been reading up on koshirae recently, and noticed I had difficulty finding examples that could be concretely dated to the early Meiji period(1869-1880) being it just being stated that toppei koshirae was common and that kurikata were replaced with rings. Anyone have any good examples of early Meiji koshirae intended for use?

[ROKUJURO]

Jonathan,

I would not expect many activities around the HAITOREI which was probably not an encouraging time for stylistic changes among SAMURAI. It was certainly different with the military who adopted western styles and technologies.  

[John C]

Similarly to Jean's thoughts, I would expect some difficulty in finding specific examples from that time period since the samurai class was abolished and the wearing of swords in public was prohibited. Swords, and I imagine koshirae, were becoming more art obects at that time so there was less need for mid to low-level mounts. I suspect most would be pedestrian examples from the satsuma rebellion (1877). Smiths, particularly in the Seki region, transitioned to making kitchen knives and scissors.

Just my two cents,

John C.

[GreyVR]

I was looking into this myself recently, and there are a few examples surviving from this period. Most are usually classed as 'Late Edo" rather then Meiji period.... and some might want to class some of these swords as Bakumatsu period.

One famous late Edo/Bakumatsu period koshirae that survives is that of "Hijikata Toshizō’s Izumi no Kami Kanesada — 土方歳三佩刀・和泉守兼定" which is in the possession of the museum that bears his name, the Hijikata Toshizō Museum in Tokyo. 

The Museum's website I have found difficult to navigate but I understand the koshirae / sword are not always on exhibition, only brought out for special occasions to help preserve them. Still, they use an image of the Koshirae in their banner, and here it is. 


It's the koshirae of a serious but city dwelling swordsman, lacking a full cage on the scabbard but with a moderate kojiri on the end, dark red matt saya, (seemingly with some manner of surface over the wood?) and a fairly long tsuka with a rounded kashira of the type many find fits better in the hand than a squared off kashira.

This koshirae has been copied many times due to it's fame and it's possible to get it off the rack as an iaito.

While searching, I was assured some other Shinsengumi koshirae survived, but when I went to the links I mostly found swords without mounts. Nonehteless, here's the link in question. https://www.ryozen-museum.or.jp/about/masterpiece/mp_001/


EDIT TO ADD:

Ah, I may have misread the topic! I was thinking of what I had been looking into, which is really "end of the Edo period /  troubled times between it and Meiji period.... And it looks like you are more interested in the start of the production of what would evolve into Gunto swords? I apologize!

That said, there is the model 32 sword from just after your mentioned dates (1889) which is one of the first production swords for Japanese cavalry. It's in the European style, except for the point which is Japanese style. It also includes a squeeze safety to keep it from exiting the scabbard accidently. 

 

Images from here: https://www.mayerantiques.com/product/Japanese-m1889-type-32-cavalry-sabre/?v=7516fd43adaa

This also might not be 'quite' what you are looking for, as it's a production sword, not a koshirae for older blades, but it should at least give an idea of what was in the mind of the people trying to push Japan into the modern world. This is what they were aiming at before they decided to go the other way and hold on to more culture... (which I suspect could only be done after the successful abolition of the samurai class as a political power) when they went to the gunto people think of today which harken back to the 'bygone era' of the samurai. 

A metal scabbard European style saber with only the tip of the point in the old style. It also uses a leather finger loop, which really adds to the 'snap' when you have it in the hand. Very nice, well balanced piece. 

Very curious to see if anyone else comes up with an early 'western looking' koshirae for an older sword. 

Edited June 17 by GreyVR

[jdawg221]

2 hours ago, GreyVR said:

I was looking into this myself recently, and there are a few examples surviving from this period. Most are usually classed as 'Late Edo" rather then Meiji period.... and some might want to class some of these swords as Bakumatsu period.

One famous late Edo/Bakumatsu period koshirae that survives is that of "Hijikata Toshizō’s Izumi no Kami Kanesada — 土方歳三佩刀・和泉守兼定" which is in the possession of the museum that bears his name, the Hijikata Toshizō Museum in Tokyo. 

The Museum's website I have found difficult to navigate but I understand the koshirae / sword are not always on exhibition, only brought out for special occasions to help preserve them. Still, they use an image of the Koshirae in their banner, and here it is. 


It's the koshirae of a serious but city dwelling swordsman, lacking a full cage on the scabbard but with a moderate kojiri on the end, dark red matt saya, (seemingly with some manner of surface over the wood?) and a fairly long tsuka with a rounded kashira of the type many find fits better in the hand than a squared off kashira.

This koshirae has been copied many times due to it's fame and it's possible to get it off the rack as an iaito.

While searching, I was assured some other Shinsengumi koshirae survived, but when I went to the links I mostly found swords without mounts. Nonehteless, here's the link in question. https://www.ryozen-museum.or.jp/about/masterpiece/mp_001/


EDIT TO ADD:

Ah, I may have misread the topic! I was thinking of what I had been looking into, which is really "end of the Edo period /  troubled times between it and Meiji period.... And it looks like you are more interested in the start of the production of what would evolve into Gunto swords? I apologize!

That said, there is the model 32 sword from just after your mentioned dates (1889) which is one of the first production swords for Japanese cavalry. It's in the European style, except for the point which is Japanese style. It also includes a squeeze safety to keep it from exiting the scabbard accidently. 

 

Images from here: https://www.mayerantiques.com/product/Japanese-m1889-type-32-cavalry-sabre/?v=7516fd43adaa

This also might not be 'quite' what you are looking for, as it's a production sword, not a koshirae for older blades, but it should at least give an idea of what was in the mind of the people trying to push Japan into the modern world. This is what they were aiming at before they decided to go the other way and hold on to more culture... (which I suspect could only be done after the successful abolition of the samurai class as a political power) when they went to the gunto people think of today which harken back to the 'bygone era' of the samurai. 

A metal scabbard European style saber with only the tip of the point in the old style. It also uses a leather finger loop, which really adds to the 'snap' when you have it in the hand. Very nice, well balanced piece. 

Very curious to see if anyone else comes up with an early 'western looking' koshirae for an older sword. 

Late Edo koshirae is a dime a dozen. It's easy to say that that's what early Meiji koshirae looked like, but again I'm looking for actual sets that can be dated to the early Meiji. Also the type 32 or kyu gunto isn't what I'm looking for either. 

[Toryu2020]

Meiji himself was turned on to swords by his (former) samurai advisors, many people made gifts of swords to the imperial household because of this. Meiji work is distinctive for its over the top gorgeousness. Some of what you seek may be found here…

 

[jdawg221]

36 minutes ago, Toryu2020 said:

Meiji himself was turned on to swords by his (former) samurai advisors, many people made gifts of swords to the imperial household because of this. Meiji work is distinctive for its over the top gorgeousness. Some of what you seek may be found here…

 

Thank you! Now I have 2 more books to search for haha.

[Bryce]

G'day Jonathan,

I have this koshirae which I think can be dated very close to this. The Gassan Sadakazu blade is dated 1866. The tsuba is also signed by Sadakazu.

Cheers,

Bryce

 

[Marcin]

@jdawg221 it’s an auction of ex Pablo Kuntz blade. Koshirae looks like and is described by Pablo as crafted in the Meiji era.
Go at unique Japan web page and run through old catalogues? His items usually have full paperwork.

All with sufficient certificates.

Cata link link

Cheers

Edited July 1 by Marcin

[Lewis B]

Assuming permission wasn't sought I'm sure Pablo will not be too happy to see his photos being used in a third party FS listing.

[Marcin]

Just now, Lewis B said:

Assuming permission wasn't sought I'm sure Pablo will not be too happy to see his photos being used in a third party FS listing.

If seller is the one who bought blade from Pablo I don’t think he „will go Wesker” if You know what I mean.

[Lewis B]

20 hours ago, Marcin said:

If seller is the one who bought blade from Pablo I don’t think he „will go Wesker” if You know what I mean.

Pablo had not given permission to use the copyrighted images and description. The seller on Catawiki just copied and pasted his photos and description word for word. Just lazy and not cool without getting permission first. 

[Bugyotsuji]

I have a Sukekane Tantō blade dated Meiji 2 (1869) in black urushi Inaba Koshiraé with silver chrysanthemum style fittings, plus rings. No proof, but common sense says the Koshiraé has to be contemporary with the blade, i.e. c 1870.

 

NBTHK Hozon