Bizen Osafune Kiyomitsu dated Eiroku 5 / 1562 – full koshirae project and cost sanity check

[RobDam]

Hello everyone,

I am currently working on a full koshirae project around a katana signed:

 

Bizen Kuni jū Osafune Kiyomitsu saku kore
備前国住長船清光作之

 

The blade is dated:

Eiroku 5 nen 8 gatsu hi
永禄五年八月日
August 1562.

 

It has NBTHK Tokubetsu Hozon papers. The blade length is noted as 2 shaku 2 sun 8 bu han, approximately 69.2 cm.

There is also an oshigata / sayagaki by Hon’ami Nisshu, dated a lucky day in February 1991, Heisei 3.

The sayagaki describes the smith as:

Bizen Kuni jū Osafune Gorōzaemon no Jō Kiyomitsu.

 

I am trying to understand the blade and the project as a whole, not just the mei. I would be grateful for any opinions on the following points:

1. How should I understand this blade within late Muromachi / Sue-Bizen production? I understand that many Sue-Bizen blades were made during a period of heavy demand, but this example is signed, dated, Tokubetsu Hozon, and appears to have been considered worthy of a Hon’ami Nisshu oshigata. Does this place it above ordinary wartime production, or is that still too broad an assumption?
2. Why does the sayagaki use the fuller attribution “Gorōzaemon no Jō Kiyomitsu”, while the mei itself reads “Bizen Kuni jū Osafune Kiyomitsu saku kore”?
3. Am I correct in thinking that the sayagaki is identifying the specific Kiyomitsu generation/title, rather than contradicting the mei?
4. I am also commissioning a new koshirae in Japan using selected antique fittings. The planned fittings include an Aizu Shōami iron tsuba, shakudō fuchi-kashira, antique menuki, black samegawa, dark brown silk tsuka-ito, black lacquer saya, and a custom satin silver habaki. I will attach some pictures below. As a general sanity check, does this seem like a coherent project for this type of blade? I am aiming for something understated, historically respectful, and not overly decorative.
5. Finally, I would appreciate a market perspective on the total cost. The whole project, including the blade, koshirae work, fittings, habaki, import and transport to Europe, will likely be around 1.750.000/2.000.000JPY all-in. I am not asking because I intend to sell it; I see it as a long-term collection piece. I simply want to understand whether this total cost seems reasonable for a complete, papered, signed and dated Kiyomitsu project in the current market.

 

I know that value depends heavily on condition, polish, workmanship, papers, fittings and overall quality, so I am not looking for a precise valuation. I would just appreciate informed opinions on whether the project and budget make sense.

 

Thank you very much for any guidance, corrections or references.

Edited May 29 by RobDam

[RobDam]

measures and description:

Blade Length: 69.2 cm (27.24 in)
Curvature: 1.7 cm (0.67 in)
Mekugi Hole: 1
Width at Base (Motohaba): 3.14 cm (1.24 in)
Width at Tip (Sakihaba): 2.00 cm (0.79 in)

Thickness of Rim (Kasane): 0.74 cm (0.29 in)
Sword Weight: 780 g

 

Shape:This sword has a robust width, with a bo-hi (groove) carved on both sides.The
kissaki (tip) is slightly extended, presenting a solid and well-balanced appearance.

Jigane (Steel Surface):Well-forged ko-itame hada, showing a faint utsuri (shadow-like
pattern).

 

Hamon (Temper Pattern):Confirmed by Hon’ami Nisshu.
The jigane is beautiful, and the hamon complements it elegantly.
It begins with a straight temper line (suguha) transitioning into a mild notare, then a gentle
gunome-midare with small ashi included—rich in variety.

 

Something I really like is the bo-hi not going below/inside the habaki

Edited May 29 by RobDam

[eternal_newbie]

46 minutes ago, RobDam said:

3. Why does the sayagaki use the fuller attribution “Gorōzaemon no Jō Kiyomitsu”, while the mei itself reads “Bizen Kuni jū Osafune Kiyomitsu saku kore”?

4. Am I correct in thinking that the sayagaki is identifying the specific Kiyomitsu generation/title, rather than contradicting the mei?

 

This is correct. Multiple generations of smiths often signed with the same characters as their predecessors, so the writer of the sayagaki has narrowed it down to Gorōzaemon, who along with Magōemon (also Kiyomitsu) is considered the best smith of the Sue Bizen group. You can find a writeup on this smith here: https://nihontowatch.com/artists/kiyomitsu-KIY173 and on the broader Kiyomitsu lineage here: https://www.sho-shin.com/sue6.html

[RobDam]

31 minutes ago, eternal_newbie said:

 

This is correct. Multiple generations of smiths often signed with the same characters as their predecessors, so the writer of the sayagaki has narrowed it down to Gorōzaemon, who along with Magōemon (also Kiyomitsu) is considered the best smith of the Sue Bizen group. You can find a writeup on this smith here: https://nihontowatch.com/artists/kiyomitsu-KIY173 and on the broader Kiyomitsu lineage here: https://www.sho-shin.com/sue6.html

Thank you, that makes sense. So the mei gives the broader Osafune Kiyomitsu signature, while Hon’ami Nisshu’s sayagaki identifies it more specifically as Gorōzaemon no Jō Kiyomitsu. That is exactly the distinction I was trying to understand. I will read the references carefully, especially the point about Gorōzaemon and Magōemon being considered among the best Sue-Bizen Kiyomitsu smiths.

[RobDam]

I want to post some details of the fittings.

Originally I wanted this fuchikashira: https://www.aoijapan.com/fuchikashira-bushu-ju-harima-taisei-kouchinnbthk-hozon-tosogu/

But the lab told me it was not fitting well and the lab proposed the one in the picture below "found in their treasure box" - however this one is not papered (the others are all papered)

I would be interested to hear any thoughts on whether this seems like a good decision aesthetically and historically.

 

This is a very special project for me. I spent around a year saving before being able to afford the blade, and now I am waiting more than six months for the koshirae to be completed. I still have not seen the blade in person, so I am trying to use this waiting time to study and understand the sword and fittings as much as possible.

Thank you again for any comments or guidance.

 

[Hoshi]

Dear Rob, 

 

I can chime in. 

 

1. How should I understand this blade within late Muromachi / Sue-Bizen production?

It is a blade of the late Osafune school, in its fourth phase of activity, the so-called "Sue-Bizen" phase that last until the flood of the river Yoshii. Bizen was the largest production center of swords, and produced both domestic and foreign exports to the mainland. If you want to really take a deep dive into the school to contextualize the work within the broader school period, check here: https://nihontowatch.com/lineages/osafune (note that it is a very early project, and will contains errors). 

1. I understand that many Sue-Bizen blades were made during a period of heavy demand, but this example is signed, dated, Tokubetsu Hozon, and appears to have been considered worthy of a Hon’ami Nisshu oshigata. Does this place it above ordinary wartime production, or is that still too broad an assumption?

Because it is a finely crafted blade, in a period where quality varied dramatically based on the client demands. Contrary to an old belief, even in blades without the full artisan name spelled out, there are some high-quality pieces intended as top of the line products. Note that Hon'ami Nisshu was not a exceedingly good at kantei, some of his sayagaki call for enhanced scrutiny (i.e. are inflated or simply off), and one should have ideally the kiwame (appraisal) confirmed by Tanobe sensei. 

1. Why does the sayagaki use the fuller attribution “Gorōzaemon no Jō Kiyomitsu”, while the mei itself reads “Bizen Kuni jū Osafune Kiyomitsu saku kore”?

The traits indicative of master Gorōzaemon's hand are apparent in the blade to the eyes of Hon'ami Nisshu, allowing for the narrowing of the attribution. Alternatively, In certain cases, it is a statement on the quality rather than a narrowing of the attribution range, a way to praise the sword above those bearing this signature type. 

 

You can learn about “Gorōzaemon no Jō Kiyomitsu” here: https://nihontowatch.com/artists/kiyomitsu-KIY173

1. Am I correct in thinking that the sayagaki is identifying the specific Kiyomitsu generation/title, rather than contradicting the mei?

It is narrowing down to the author, there is no contradiction. Kiyomitsu is a lineage within Sue-Bizen, and many smiths operated under this name. Similar with the Sukesada line. 

1. I am also commissioning a new koshirae in Japan using selected antique fittings. The planned fittings include an Aizu Shōami iron tsuba, shakudō fuchi-kashira, antique menuki, black samegawa, dark brown silk tsuka-ito, black lacquer saya, and a custom satin silver habaki. I will attach some pictures below. As a general sanity check, does this seem like a coherent project for this type of blade? I am aiming for something understated, historically respectful, and not overly decorative.

I think this is the right approach and you don't need the usual warning of avoiding the "koshirae americana" style. In my experience, it is useful to study books on Koshirae with historical photos, check Markus's Sesko website - there is, as I recall, a lovely illustrated book on Koshirae that he has translated. Do keep in mind that you are unlikely to recoup your investment, it is a labor of love and a to leave behind a testament of care to the sword for the next owner. Also, be aware that Tosogu are not 'modular' in their ability to fit blades, there is no standard rail measurements. Fuchi, Kashira, Tsuba, all need to be appropriately sized to the blade's proportion, and reworked in some cases. Avoiding excessive rework on precious tosogu is important, as it may lead to the proportions being off on top of it. For instance, Fuchi and Tsuba Seppa Dai need to be close in measurements, and the overall pieces need to be appropriate for the motohaba and kasane of the blade. 

1. Finally, I would appreciate a market perspective on the total cost. The whole project, including the blade, koshirae work, fittings, habaki, import and transport to Europe, will likely be around 1.750.000/2.000.000JPY all-in. I am not asking because I intend to sell it; I see it as a long-term collection piece. I simply want to understand whether this total cost seems reasonable for a complete, papered, signed and dated Kiyomitsu project in the current market.

I think you may be underestimating the total cost or going for lower-level labor. It's also possible to achieve decent results this way, but keep in mind It is not easy work to get right, and you should make sure you have the right person to handle it in Japan. Koshirae outcomes widely differ in results. The best way to handle it is full art patron style: elect a promising craftsman who wants to compete in the fittings competition of NBHTK, give them artistic freedom. If the Koshirae is made for submission at the contest, it is the best way to communicate your intention of historical accuracy and high-quality work. Perhaps, best for the next sword. 

 

I hope this helps, good luck with your project, and we are looking forward to seeing the results. 

 

Hoshi

[RobDam]

Hi Hoshi,

Thank you very much for taking the time to write such a detailed and helpful reply. This is exactly the kind of context I was hoping to understand.

 

Your explanation of Sue-Bizen and the Kiyomitsu lineage helps a lot.

I also take your point regarding Nisshu and the need not to treat every sayagaki as final authority.

In this case, I see the NBTHK Tokubetsu Hozon paper as the main formal confirmation, and the oshigata/sayagaki as an additional historical/contextual element.

 

I also appreciate your comments on the koshirae. My aim is definitely not to create anything flashy or “koshirae americana”, but rather something restrained and respectful to the blade.

I understand that this will not be an NBTHK competition-level koshirae, the quote for the habaki+koshirae with AOI is 310k jpy. I see it more as a long-term labour of care around the sword.

 

Regarding the cost, the blade itself was a significant investment, and the remaining amount is for the selected fittings, new koshirae work, custom habaki, import and transport. The work is being handled through AOI in Japan. I realise that a full art-patron approach with a top craftsman and competition-level ambition would be a different category altogether, perhaps something for a future project if I ever reach that level of collecting.

 

Your point about tosogu not being modular is also very useful. In fact, one of the fuchi-kashira sets I originally selected was rejected by the workshop because it did not fit the project well, and they proposed another one from their own stock. That now makes much more sense to me.

 

Thank you again. I will continue studying the Osafune/Sue-Bizen context and the Kiyomitsu lineage, and I look forward to sharing the completed koshirae when it is finished.

[klee]

Very nice blade @RobDam 👏👏

 

I ve collected many Kiyomitsu and this one was tempting but I passed on bidding since I try to avoid blades with bo hi ( just personal taste )

 

While I love Hon'Ami Nisshu s caligraphy, he is known to be wrong often and this one was a bit surprising since Eiroku 5 ( 1562 ) is quite outside of his normal range. He produced most of his work in the Tenbun era. This falls right into Magoemon ( son/apprentice ) s time line who followed in Gorozaemon style.

 

Regradless, it s a great sue bizen Kiyomitsu blade. One of my favorite era and smiths to collect 

 

I have currently have a Kiyomitsu waiting export in Japan. It is signed similar to yours but the NBTHK attributed it to Magoemon. Waiting to hear if Tanobe sensei can do a sayagaki.

 

 

[RobDam]

2 hours ago, klee said:

Very nice blade @RobDam 👏👏

 

I ve collected many Kiyomitsu and this one was tempting but I passed on bidding since I try to avoid blades with bo hi ( just personal taste )

 

Thank you very much, that is extremely helpful!

 

It is reassuring to hear this from someone who has collected several Kiyomitsu blades  

 

For me the main takeaway is that there is no contradiction with the mei, but rather a question of which Kiyomitsu within the lineage is most appropriate. I will treat the Hon’ami Nisshu note as valuable context, but not as final authority.

About the bo-hi: I understand it is a matter of personal taste, but in my case I actually really like it. One feature I especially liked is that the hi appears to stop above the habaki rather than running down into the nakago. I have not seen many Kiyomitsu examples with this exact appearance, so it was one of the details that attracted me to the blade. Can you confirm it's not common?

 

Very interesting that you currently have a similar Kiyomitsu in Japan attributed to Magōemon by NBTHK!

I would be very interested to hear what Tanobe sensei says if you are able to get a sayagaki!

 

Thank you again, this helps me understand the blade much better.

[klee]

Hi @RobDam

 

You are most welcome. Always love seeing fine Kiyomitsu blades come around.

 

It is generally difficult to evaluate bo hi due to many variables. Yes they are somewhat time period / school /smith associated but there were always exceptions. And more importantly, they were often added later ( ato bi ). Meaning yours may have started without a bo hi but was added later. It s often hard to tell

 

 

Your s ends in Maru-dome at the bottom which is a common feature of muromachi Bizen but it is also ryo chiri which could be considered an outlier. Again it is often difficult to evaluate bo hi so I wouldnt really worry about it.

 

 

[RobDam]

4 hours ago, klee said:

Hi @RobDam

 

You are most welcome. Always love seeing fine Kiyomitsu blades come around.

 

It is generally difficult to evaluate bo hi due to many variables. Yes they are somewhat time period / school /smith associated but there were always exceptions. And more importantly, they were often added later ( ato bi ). Meaning yours may have started without a bo hi but was added later. It s often hard to tell

 

 

Your s ends in Maru-dome at the bottom which is a common feature of muromachi Bizen but it is also ryo chiri which could be considered an outlier. Again it is often difficult to evaluate bo hi so I wouldnt really worry about it.

 

Thank you, that makes sense.

I liked the bo-hi mostly for aesthetic reasons, especially the maru-dome ending above the habaki, but I understand now that it should not be overinterpreted for attribution, especially if ato-bi is possible.

The ryō-chiri point is very interesting, I didn't know that distinction before Thanks again, this is very helpful!!

Edited May 29 by RobDam

[Sukaira]

If I recall correctly Fujishiro states in his section on Kiyomitsu that most good quality later era Kiyomitsu blades signed in the general signature are actually works of Magoemon. Totally possible it could be Goro but I’d bet that on Mago with that year and overall style.

[RobDam]

On 5/31/2026 at 4:16 AM, Sukaira said:

If I recall correctly Fujishiro states in his section on Kiyomitsu that most good quality later era Kiyomitsu blades signed in the general signature are actually works of Magoemon. Totally possible it could be Goro but I’d bet that on Mago with that year and overall style.

thank you! Now I'm wondering how can I distinguish between the two, and why Nisshu decided to attribute this work to Goro

I am also curious how to interpret Hon’ami Nisshu’s decision to write Gorōzaemon no Jō Kiyomitsu in the sayagaki. If the date is relatively late for Gorōzaemon, would that suggest that Nisshu saw workmanship strongly reminiscent of Gorōzaemon, or could he have been using the name more as a quality/style attribution rather than a strict chronological attribution?

Edited Monday at 09:15 AM by RobDam

[Sukaira]

There are posts around here that say Nisshu was great at polishing and not great at attribution and I am not sure of those sources, maybe someone can post them. I think either one of those things you proposed could be true - "workmanship strongly reminiscent of Gorōzaemon, or could he have been using the name more as a quality/style attribution rather than a strict chronological attribution". It would be interesting to see if anyone on the forum can produce a reference to a blade attributed to Gorozaemon by NBTHK or at the very least Tanobe, that has the more generic signature. I am not aware of any, but then again I haven't really dug into it.

[CSM101]

Token Bijutsu  786 Gorozaemon Kiyomitsu

 

 

[RobDam]

19 hours ago, Sukaira said:

There are posts around here that say Nisshu was great at polishing and not great at attribution and I am not sure of those sources, maybe someone can post them. I think either one of those things you proposed could be true - "workmanship strongly reminiscent of Gorōzaemon, or could he have been using the name more as a quality/style attribution rather than a strict chronological attribution". It would be interesting to see if anyone on the forum can produce a reference to a blade attributed to Gorozaemon by NBTHK or at the very least Tanobe, that has the more generic signature. I am not aware of any, but then again I haven't really dug into it.

found this mention (not sure it refers to "my" Nisshu) here

"Honami Nishu sayagaki. Wrong attribution in 40% of cases, though his supporters argue that there are
many fakes. Because Honami Nishu was the next best choice after Dr. Sato Kanzan (who was a prolific
sayagaki writer), his sayagaki tends to be associated with lower grade and more questionable blades,
though he did polish and wrote sayagaki for a few masterpieces. Often he assigns very famous names to
average blades from roughly the same school"

 

 

[RobDam]

44 minutes ago, CSM101 said:

Token Bijutsu  786 Gorozaemon Kiyomitsu

Ok - this is actually interesting:

Bizen Kuni jū Osafune Gorōzaemon no Jō Kiyomitsu
Eiroku 5 nen 8 gatsu kichijitsu
August 1562

If I understand correctly this invalidates the assumption Eiroku 5 is “too late” for Gorōzaemon.

Edited Wednesday at 02:45 PM by RobDam

[RobDam]

Of course, the difference is that the Token Bijutsu example has the full Gorōzaemon no Jō name in the mei, while my blade has the more general Bizen Kuni jū Osafune Kiyomitsu saku kore signature. So perhaps the real question is not only chronology, but whether workmanship and mei style are enough to narrow a general Kiyomitsu signature to Gorōzaemon, or whether Magōemon remains more likely.

(And if a consequence I potentially overvalued the blade)

Edited Wednesday at 04:17 PM by RobDam

[klee]

@RobDam

 

I believe that token bijutsu blade reads Tenbun if im not mistaken.

 

And no I think what you paid for is very resonable for what you have. A very fine sue bizen work with a nisshu sayagaki.

 

While he doesnt carry the reputation of Tanobe sensei. He was still recognized as a living national treasure and his calligraphy is most beautiful of all in my opinion. His sayagaki certainly adds value

[RobDam]

2 hours ago, klee said:

@RobDam

 

I believe that token bijutsu blade reads Tenbun if im not mistaken.

 

This is gold dust thank you

The Gorōzaemon/Magōemon question is still very valid 

Edited Wednesday at 06:40 PM by RobDam

[Sukaira]

In any case, Mago or Goro, you can be assured it's a high level, well executed Kiyomitsu. "Does this place it above ordinary wartime production?" - I would generally say yes. Does not seem to be a kazuuchimono to me.  It has been well kept, one mekugi ana, nakago is clean.

[rebcannonshooter]

Hi RobDam, I own a sword that's signed "Bizen Kuni Ju Osafune Gorozaemon Jo Kiyo-Mitsu saku" with a full length bo-hi. It's dated the 18th year of Temon/Tenbun (1549). If you're interested in a range of dates.

[RobDam]

11 hours ago, rebcannonshooter said:

Hi RobDam, I own a sword that's signed "Bizen Kuni Ju Osafune Gorozaemon Jo Kiyo-Mitsu saku" with a full length bo-hi. It's dated the 18th year of Temon/Tenbun (1549). If you're interested in a range of dates.

I'm not a fan of the full length bo-hi, but would you mind to post some pictures? Curious to dee the blade anyway What would be your ask?

[GreyVR]

Is this your first time having a koshirae commissioned? 

What I have to say isn't exactly what you asked, but I want to make sure to say it, as it might help you a good bit. 

Make sure you go over every detail before they start! Especially talk to them about the size of the Tsuka, including it's DIAMETER/circumference or they might make you a big wide one. 

Especially decide if you want the saya cut for a kozuka. They most likely will not do so if you do not specify that you want that. I notice your choice of Tsuba has the other hole closed up, so you might not want a kogai cut, but if you do, be sure to talk to them about it. Personally I love Kozuka, and would always get one given the option, but it's a choice you have to make. You mention black lacquer, there's more then one style there, most likely you are going for gloss, but make sure you and they are on the same page about the finish. 

Especially decide if you want a tsunagi (wooden blade) to display the koshirae with when the blade is in shirasaya. They might offer, but make sure you ask if you are getting one, and get one if you need to.... and ask them to make sure it also fits your shirasaya just for convenience. I ended up with one that didn't once when I bought a sword that I think ... now... had the wrong saya with it... and the Tsunagi was something they stole from a back room. (Still a bit cross about that... but I do love the sword.) 

A lot of these things they might offer, and they might assume you will ask, so be sure to ask. Take nothing as a given, go over every step, and don't be afraid to say you want to hear them say something. Sometimes people from eastern cultures do not want to admit there's a translation issue. I once worked with a Chinese fellow who had no idea what I was asking for, and pretended he did, until he couldn't anymore, so don't be afraid to make sure you are understood as it might mean having them repeat something back to you. I've spent a fair amount of time with new and old sword koshirae (though nothing close to some of the people here) and older sword koshirae is usually thinner/more narrow then is usually made to order today. So tell them you want it historically accurate and not adjusted to modern tastes and specify those things mentioned... and also ask on here for the things that I, as a bit of a noob, don't even know. There's people here who will. 
 

Also, I hate to drop frustration in the lap of another koshirae builder... but you might want to make sure you can get another similar Tsuba for your eventual wakizashi or tanto addition to the set.... and also be aware you are talking about understanding the sword's origin as a war sword while making what appears from your parts, an elegant Edo period town sword koshirae. We can all but guarantee this is not the first time your blade has worn such garments, but if you wanted a war sword koshirae, it is something that can be done for you. Handachi parts can be had, though it has seemed hard to me to find scabbard reinforcements as antiques. (perhaps someone has a suggestion there?) and getting modern ones is easier but you need to know you can ask about them. If you did want a handachi, there are a few places that make quality modern ones... though the only one I'm aware of is this one. (Other people might speak up with other workshops.)  

https://nosyudo.jp/item/itemgenre/gendaikanagu/

You can buy the bits ala carte, if you want just a cage around the saya's end, 

And not buy the tachi hangers, and likely (unsure) and it's likely you could even get different engravings.... I haven't ordered those parts before and there's likely other workshops. you might be able to get pretty much anything you wanted made.... but it'll take a few months. So if that's something of interest, get on the choices now. 

P.S. Personally I'd go with black silk ito. Never took to brown as well.

I wish you the joy of your sword. 

[RobDam]

Hey George,

Super appreciated, thank you!

YES! First time (newbie here)

I actually went through the thread you pinned about oversized tsuba a few hours ago, so now I have an additional concern, lol.

That said, I assume AOI is quite serious when it comes to commissioned koshirae.

 

I need more time to fully digest your comment, but meanwhile let me explain the rationale behind this project.

 

1. The idea is to take a “war period” blade and dress it in a calmer, more restrained Edo-period style, using authenticated antique tosogu where possible. I am not trying to recreate a battlefield mounting.
2. I want something respectful, austere and historically plausible for a blade that has survived into a later peaceful context.

3. A calm, nature-based theme. Austere rather than flashy or over-coloured.
4. The koshirae cost should remain reasonably below the cost of the blade.
5. The overall feeling should be quiet, strong and understated.

 

This is what I literally requested from AOI:

 

Quote

For the koshirae, I would prefer a simple and austere style in the 150,000–200,000 yen range, similar to sample 23517. (

Tsuka:
Full wrap / maru-gise black samegawa.
Dark brown silk tsuka-ito in hineri-maki style.

Saya:
Plain black lacquer.

I trust your judgment regarding the fitting and overall harmony of the koshirae.

Habaki:
I would like to change the habaki to a custom silver one with a satin finish, not highly polished, as I feel this may better match the overall character of the blade and fittings. As per picture attached:

 

 

 

Your point about tsuka size is very useful. I definitely do not want a modern oversized martial-arts style tsuka.

I didn't know this should be specified to them, I was assuming they will be respectful of the traditions.

 

Regarding kozuka/kogai, I had not planned to add them.

The tsunagi point is also very helpful. I had not thought enough about that, and I will ask whether one is included or recommended.

 

BTW I also have a name for the Koshirae: Kage-Aki Koshirae  and blade = Kagemasa

 

Finally AOI art acknowledge everything and the work started 31st of March with an ETA of 7 months.

MAybe too late to ask for changes?

 

Thanks again. This is exactly the kind of practical advice I need before the work is finalised.

 

Edited 12 hours ago by RobDam

[RobDam]

1 hour ago, GreyVR said:

Make sure you go over every detail before they start! Especially talk to them about the size of the Tsuka, including it's DIAMETER/circumference or they might make you a big wide one. 

Last question: can you be more specific? What should I ask them exactly?

[GreyVR]

21 minutes ago, RobDam said:

Last question: can you be more specific? What should I ask them exactly?

Basically make sure you are getting the diameter you want. The thread I linked to last couple of posts are about that. If you want full historical you want smaller. These days a lot of people make overly wide/thick tsuka by default, often excuse it over hand size of modern people, but personally I much prefer the historic thickness (which is thinner.) 

 

(I'm pretty tired right now, but you might actually start a thread on things to check on when having a koshirae made.)  

It's very rewarding but it's long distance and cross lingual so you want to make sure you have all your ducks in a row. 

[RobDam]

On 5/29/2026 at 2:02 PM, klee said:

I have currently have a Kiyomitsu waiting export in Japan. It is signed similar to yours but the NBTHK attributed it to Magoemon. Waiting to hear if Tanobe sensei can do a sayagaki.

the more I look at your blade the more I like it I'd love to see more pictures once you get it

(the same when I look at mine tho )

 

[RobDam]

2 minutes ago, GreyVR said:

Basically make sure you are getting the diameter you want.

Thank you again, super appreciated.

BTW I've NO idea what's the diameter I want :p 

 

[GreyVR]

4 hours ago, RobDam said:

Thank you again, super appreciated.

BTW I've NO idea what's the diameter I want :p 

This is a topic that is close to my heart as I very strongly believe that a reproduction should feel in the hand as it would have if you picked up an original. Now, your blade IS an original, so you are most of the way there, but the wood is very often made according to modern tastes. Japan has the advantage over the rest of the world in having the absolute gold medal for 'taking care of their stuff.' It might be enough to say you want an old tsuka copied, but certainly address it. 

But the counter argument that 'each man's arms should be made in proportion to his body' does have merit. I think I saw in another thread that you are a ryu student? In many schools the sword will be gripped just below the guard and the thumb will be used to break the seal of the habaki by pushing on the tsuba. As such, if you have particularly large or small hands, one adjustment you might choose is to have the kurigata moved forward or back in reference to your hand size. I'm unsure if this is a good idea, as I 'think" the kurigata is where it is so the sageo can be tied in that 'knot' that everyone thinks is purely decorative but is perhaps a way to accomplish a tachi rig with just cord and a single anchor point. 

But it IS a common choice. 





Even so, the problem that 'reproductions tend to be much too chunky' is a very, very real problem, and cannot be overstated. Spears are often made like fenceposts, the originals were like reeds. Thin and fast, and tapered along the entire shaft.
Swords like guillotine blades for heavy cutting. This is a place where you, the buyer, needs to be on the ball. 

And don't neglect the kozuka question! those little utility blades (and the other tools that could be carried with a sword like a grooming tool, hoof knife, or chopsticks) are ... very cool. Not everyone did carry them, but there's enough on the market an amazing collection of just those can be made.