Gold plated menuki

[kissakai]

I bought these just over ten years ago

 

I was thinking about these menuki the other day and the comments made by Ford Hallam after seeing it in hand, stating the thin gold plating was a 'lost' process
Anyone who knew Ford also knew he had a wicked sense of humour so what are the NMB members thoughts?

 

Details but nothing confirmed
School: Goto
Circa 1700
Thin plate gold was used rather than gold leaf
Gissha (Old oxcart for nobles)
Shakudo and gold
Size 32 x 14mm

I'd welcome any comments
 

 

[Matsunoki]

Hi Grev

Was he talking about mercurial gilding? That is indeed a lost process mostly because it can kill the user due to the release of  mercury vapour during the firing process.

 

[Lewis B]

Lost or loss process? Mercury gilding is described a loss process as the Mercury is vaporised leaving a thin gold film on the object?

[ROKUJURO]

It was perhaps not a humorous remark but a misunderstanding. The MENUKI have obviously been made in a "lost wax model" casting process instead of UCHIDASHI.

[Hokke]

7 minutes ago, Lewis B said:

Lost or loss process? Mercury gilding is described a loss process as the Mercury is vaporised leaving a thin gold film on the object?

I believe he was referring to “lost” in the sense that it is no longer a method used due to the health hazard. 

[Hokke]

Just now, ROKUJURO said:

It was perhaps not a humorous remark but a misunderstanding. The MENUKI have obviously been made in a "lost wax model" casting process instead of UCHDASHI.

Interesting Jean, what stands out to you that these were cast? The square posts that look to be sprues?

[ROKUJURO]

Calabrese,

I was told that this method is not lost, but if a goldsmith wants to apply it, a special exhaust system with recuperating filters has to be used.

[ROKUJURO]

This is not really an inferior method in MENUKI making.
If you look at the very detailed outer structure, it cannot be achieved just by pushing material in and out. But I admit that one should see these MENUKI cleaned in-hand to be sure. 

[Hokke]

44 minutes ago, ROKUJURO said:

Calabrese,

I was told that this method is not lost, but if a goldsmith wants to apply it, a special exhaust system with recuperating filters has to be used.

I agree, not lost, just uncommon and antiquated. 

[Matsunoki]

These menuki look cast and then hand finished…imo.

[NotANinja]

On 5/23/2026 at 5:10 PM, ROKUJURO said:

It was perhaps not a humorous remark but a misunderstanding. The MENUKI have obviously been made in a "lost wax model" casting process instead of UCHDASHI.

Could the oxen be uchidashi, with the wheels soldered or braised as a possibility? The underside of these look like uchidashi, but I agree the wheel spokes look difficult to achieve with that method

[ROKUJURO]

Rob,

we will probably never know how they were made, but you can come closer in case you could clean out the underside carefully. If UCHIDASHI technique was performed, you would see the chisel traces. If the surface texture looks bumpy, but smooth, casting is more likely.

As far as I know, soldering and brazing are rarely used in TOSOGU making. 

[kissakai]

Thanks for all the replies and now I understand Fords comments

This was a surprise:

As far as I know, soldering and brazing are rarely used in TOSOGU making