Thoughts on this Kanemitsu Kaigunto? Gimei?

[Kaigunto230]

I have a friend who is shopping around for a Nihonto in Gunto mounts. He's considering purchasing this kaigunto and asked for my opinion. https://www.shigure-militaria.com/blank/14th-century-signed-兼光-ijn-kaigunto .

I told him that I thought it was a nice piece overall, with a pleasant sugata and sori, and the the koshirae was good, as was the price. But I was worried that being shipped from Japan and purportedly this old without papers makes me nervous something was wrong with it, to include that it's gimei. What're your thoughts on whether or not this is gimei or just generally on the piece? 

[Ray Singer]

There were many smiths other than the famous Bizen Kanemitsu who legitimately used that name. As an alternative, you may want to look at the Sue-Seki Kanemitsu lineage.

 

It's not wrong to be cautious with a sword being sold previously out of Japan with no papers, but gimei is not the only reason that this happens. In other cases, the seller may not have felt that it was financially viable to submit it, whether that is due to flaws, or simply not being signed or attributed to a school/smith that would make the shinsa investment worthwhile. 

[Kaigunto230]

7 minutes ago, Ray Singer said:

There were many smiths other than the famous Bizen Kanemitsu who legitimately used that name. As an alternative, you may want to look at the Sue-Seki Kanemitsu lineage.

 

It's not wrong to be cautious with a sword being sold previously out of Japan with no papers, but gimei is not the only reason that this happens. In other cases, the seller may not have felt that it was financially viable to submit it, whether that is due to flaws, or simply not being signed or attributed to a smith that wouid make the shinsa investment worthwhile. 

Thanks very much, Ray. I haven’t done much Bizen research and wondered if something like that was possible.

 

And the other than financial reasons on not submitting for shinsa, that’s a great point.

 

Any thoughts overall on the piece? 

[Ray Singer]

You can see examples of each below. 

 

Bizen. 

 

https://www.google.com/search?client=ms-android-google&hs=B4n9&sca_esv=31d3cabc157c1d09&sxsrf=ANbL-n5MFpQJGTJurISdTdqyc8fxkMcEoQ:1768063408616&udm=2&fbs=ADc_l-aN0CWEZBOHjofHoaMMDiKpaEWjvZ2Py1XXV8d8KvlI3jljrY5CkLlk8Dq3IvwBz-SWBLBIpU6WqoosusF5QLbxpRE4UEP-s9kvW4xyM81KU_nRDDrtTHEylOeCsOnTP6hZ9VUt4pmkK8PNoWiruUYTsXGzKpivCXlJPWSNFMyEwrMzsXSvKDqkcbHhOfbpzkEvB87CEt8d30SxCeg7NLVb1A4ZNthJU98sgz3dyXlymgZQDWo&q=備州長船兼光&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiVvqS7tYGSAxUORTABHTAXK3AQtKgLegQIGxAB&biw=411&bih=753&dpr=2.63&aic=0#ip=1

 

 

Mino. 

 

https://www.google.com/search?client=ms-android-google&hs=Yj8o&sca_esv=31d3cabc157c1d09&sxsrf=ANbL-n4HLLPh0Kc-3yG1z78s3fKJYn_ZqQ:1768063499941&udm=2&fbs=ADc_l-aN0CWEZBOHjofHoaMMDiKp9lEhFAN_4ain3HSNQWw-mMGVXS0bCMe2eDZOQ2MOTwlPvdyGBqAYcnoDmdEOcJS4d44EpyAw76HrrPnlvuXFGMipMqWEuzmpzWzF6B4LPIcCJ3aEpkgsHoFQ2hwIuo04hGe_Dglr_3LMzZEpkVotQSzRkGrNi7OmdRav9kfb0rFL3pUk-fAMdI7JXVwFpebN2oCqZUaoUQMoSGrjrrpnoh5uFiQ&q=濃州兼光&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiFyurmtYGSAxWOTTABHR_4LXAQtKgLegQIERAB&biw=411&bih=753&dpr=2.63&aic=0

 

[eternal_newbie]

And to give you an idea of just how many smiths from different eras, schools and provinces used the name "Kanemitsu":

https://nihontoclub.com/view/smiths/meisearch?type=All&mei_op=contains&mei=kanemitsu

 

(and there are plenty more that aren't documented there, including some contemporary ones)

[JackFrost]

I see that seller post a lot on facebook and the like, and his prices always seem almost "too good to be true" a lot of the time.

Has anyone had any dealings with this individual?

[Rawa]

Nice koshirae with mon at menuki.

This seller had some items Canada based if I remember correctly.

Don’t wish for a gift from longtime seller

His current ebay listings are placed in Japan :/ 

Edited January 10 by Rawa

[PNSSHOGUN]

Many of the swords listed have some pretty significant issues, with the prices reflecting that. The mounts aren't too bad on this but the blade is a mess. 

[JackFrost]

John, would you mind explaining/expounding a bit more about what makes the blade a mess?

As someone who is still trying to learn more about Nihonto and grasp what makes a blade good and not, I would never say no to a learning opportunity. 

[PNSSHOGUN]

At the end of the day it's a real Japanese sword with decent looking Kai Gunto Koshirae, but if you look closer the cracks start to show. There are a number of dealers from Japan offering these sorts of pieces, the prices are certainly low but all sorts of skulduggery may have been applied to them. 

• The polish is rather poor and typical for rush jobs that photograph well but obscure details 
• The blade appears tired and has Ware (flaws) showing all over 
• It may be a symptom of the polish but the Hamon appears rather weak
• Looking closer at the fittings, they may have been re-gilt