Looking To Buy First Nihonto

[Rhizosphere]

[eternal_newbie]

A good first blade indeed. Regardless of when it was made, koto Soshu in good condition is a very nice place to start. Putting in the effort of looking at blades in person has worked out quite well for you.

 

I believe this is your sword: http://www.nihonto.us/SOSHU mASAHIRO KR.htm

[Rhizosphere]

43 minutes ago, eternal_newbie said:

A good first blade indeed. Regardless of when it was made, koto Soshu in good condition is a very nice place to start. Putting in the effort of looking at blades in person has worked out quite well for you.

 

I believe this is your sword: http://www.nihonto.us/SOSHU mASAHIRO KR.htm

Yes! That is it. The stains don't look as bad in person. Those photos were taken in a light that made them look as bad as possible. Hopefully they will polish out with proper uchiko. Which I will let someone else handle who is more experienced. 

[Rhizosphere]

[Ed]

2 hours ago, Rhizosphere said:

I am under the impression that the NTHK-NPO may have classified it as a 7th gen.

Your papers state 8th generation.

[Rhizosphere]

20 minutes ago, Ed said:

Your papers state 8th generation.

Maybe Google translate missed something. And that would.make less sense because itame grain suguha masame hamon on a sword that long was kind out by that time. And Soshu Den Museum says he would have signed Tsunahiro at that time. So maybe their reference collection isn't vast enough to make that judgement. Or it was blade intentionally made to imitate his predecesors techniques. 

[eternal_newbie]

Google Translate got it wrong, the original papers clearly state 8th gen (八代, hachi-dai).

 

The 5th or 6th gen Masahiro (there are some disagreements; Nihonto Club says 5th gen https://nihontoclub.com/smiths/MAS205 while the Soshu-Den museum says 6th https://nihonto-museum.com/blog/soshu-tsunahiro) was the one who changed his name to Tsunahiro, however the Masahiro line continued for at least another 2 generations parallel to the newly established Tsunahiro line.

 

[Rhizosphere]

1 minute ago, eternal_newbie said:

Google Translate got it wrong, the original papers clearly state 8th gen (八代, hachi-dai).

 

The 5th gen Masahiro (https://nihontoclub.com/smiths/MAS205) was the one who changed his name to Tsunahiro, however the Masahiro line continued for at least another 3 generations parallel to the newly established Tsunahiro line.

 

Still trying to find a correlating nijimei from Tensho period to any Masahiro

[eternal_newbie]

1 minute ago, Rhizosphere said:

Still trying to find a correlating nijimei from Tensho period to any Masahiro

 

If you can't find one, it may be worth sending yours in for shinsa to the NBTHK. Being a rare example of a signature adds historical (and often financial) value to a sword, especially koto.

[Rhizosphere]

36 minutes ago, eternal_newbie said:

 

If you can't find one, it may be worth sending yours in for shinsa to the NBTHK. Being a rare example of a signature adds historical (and often financial) value to a sword, especially koto.

All I find are the 2 reposting of MY sword. I love the mystery! I may have to. Maybe after I get my 2nd blade so I am not without.

[Ed]

8 hours ago, Rhizosphere said:

Maybe Google translate missed something.

Yes, a lot. Don't rely on google.  Not sure why you posted those photos with the google translation, as they do not mention any generation.

 

Hawleys lists an 8th generation c. 1577 (MAS 208). Your papers attribute this sword to Tensho (1573-1592).

 

[Jussi Ekholm]

Congratulations on getting a very nice looking sword. I do like the horimono a lot, even though it is worn down.

 

I do have huge respect for NBTHK and NTHK shinsa, however there are always limitations in play when they are processing hundreds of swords at fast pace in a shinsa session. I think most important thing is that they would see this as late Muromachi Sōshū Masahiro. Japanese way of giving extremely specific attributions is something I don't personally like all that much. They most likely cannot spend hours on researching a single normal sword so they shoot out a reasonable attribution they can agree on. Granted late Muromachi Sōshū is out of my comfort zone and I don't track them in my books, however I don't think I can easily find a reference sword by this smith from the huge amount of references I have at home, that is how rare this smith is. This is pretty obscure smith and very specific attribution, my guess would be that NBTHK would give out a lot more broad and general attribution.

 

I think this entry from Nihontō Meikan is the only info I can dig up about this particular smith.

 

[Rhizosphere]

4 hours ago, Jussi Ekholm said:

Congratulations on getting a very nice looking sword. I do like the horimono a lot, even though it is worn down.

 

I do have huge respect for NBTHK and NTHK shinsa, however there are always limitations in play when they are processing hundreds of swords at fast pace in a shinsa session. I think most important thing is that they would see this as late Muromachi Sōshū Masahiro. Japanese way of giving extremely specific attributions is something I don't personally like all that much. They most likely cannot spend hours on researching a single normal sword so they shoot out a reasonable attribution they can agree on. Granted late Muromachi Sōshū is out of my comfort zone and I don't track them in my books, however I don't think I can easily find a reference sword by this smith from the huge amount of references I have at home, that is how rare this smith is. This is pretty obscure smith and very specific attribution, my guess would be that NBTHK would give out a lot more broad and general attribution.

 

I think this entry from Nihontō Meikan is the only info I can dig up about this particular smith.

 

Very interesting. Thank you. Looks like I have a rabbit hole to dive in.

[Curran]

Late 1500s is full of rabbit holes and some "Who was that guy" wonders.

 

I only own 2 swords and 2 o-tanto. 

One of the o-tanto is a 2 character signature exceptional blade by a little known guy from around the same time as your blade.

Exceptional Owari blade. Call it very early Owari-shinto? Tanobe-san wrote a nice long sayagaki for it.

But who was that guy....

    supposedly he was the son, or brother, or cousin of a famous smith???  Sometimes just enjoy the blade.

 

 

edit ps.  One look at your blade and I would have thought Shimada?

Looks like that wasn't a bad guess https://www.sho-shin.com/soshu.html

@Jussi Ekholm  probably has the right of it.  I'm more on the fittings side of collecting.

 

 

[Rhizosphere]

1 hour ago, Curran said:

Late 1500s is full of rabbit holes and some "Who was that guy" wonders.

 

I only own 2 swords and 2 o-tanto. 

One of the o-tanto is a 2 character signature exceptional blade by a little known guy from around the same time as your blade.

Exceptional Owari blade. Call it very early Owari-shinto? Tanobe-san wrote a nice long sayagaki for it.

But who was that guy....

    supposedly he was the son, or brother, or cousin of a famous smith???  Sometimes just enjoy the blade.

 

 

edit ps.  One look at your blade and I would have thought Shimada?

Looks like that wasn't a bad guess https://www.sho-shin.com/soshu.html

@Jussi Ekholm  probably has the right of it.  I'm more on the fittings side of collecting.

 

 

I want to get some fittings that match a theme and maybe have a tsuka made opposed to sending it off for re-certification. 

Edited 20 hours ago by Rhizosphere

[Curran]

11 hours ago, Rhizosphere said:

I want to get some fittings that match a theme and maybe have a tsuka made opposed to sending it off for re-certification. 

 

As much as I'd love to see it- don't do it.

I did it with my first love:   the other o-tanto I own.  

It took maybe 8 years and is almost certainly a money sink.  There are some in Japan that can do it much more economically than outside of Japan, but it is a difficult road.

[Rhizosphere]

19 minutes ago, Curran said:

 

As much as I'd love to see it- don't do it.

I did it with my first love:   the other o-tanto I own.  

It took maybe 8 years and is almost certainly a money sink.  There are some in Japan that can do it much more economically than outside of Japan, but it is a difficult road.

It wasn't described to be that bad as long as you find all the fittings yourself. Then just have the tsuka made to fit them and the sword. I was going to find tsuba slightly bigger than the tang and have copper fittings placed to fit it snug.

[Scogg]

3 years and counting for me, on just a habaki/shirasaya 

It's a long journey. Be prepared for some serious patience.
-Sam

[Rhizosphere]

9 minutes ago, Scogg said:

3 years and counting for me, on just a habaki/shirasaya 

It's a long journey. Be prepared for some serious patience.
-Sam

Yeah, that was the idea. A long term project that i dont plan to really recoupe the cost of

[Rhizosphere]

Had 2 more good photos I wanted to share. Showcasing the purple and blue reflections the steel puts off at the right angle. I am using a pure white daylight LED and have indirect sunlight coming in from my windows. Unfortuantely I had to reduce photo size and make a copy to post on the forumn. So quality got reduced. 

[Rhizosphere]

21 minutes ago, Scogg said:

3 years and counting for me, on just a habaki/shirasaya 

It's a long journey. Be prepared for some serious patience.
-Sam

But, here is my idea. The blade has a Buddhist prayer carved into it. So if I go Buddhist themes. Buddist themed stuff is pretty common. Shouldn't be hard to match tsuna with some fittings. I have habaki already. Its a little beat up. But it something i could change later on. 

[Scogg]

In my limited experience, sourcing the parts isn’t what takes the most time. In most cases, the parts are already gathered before a craftsman is even brought in to do the fitting.
 

The real delay comes from the waiting lists of qualified craftsmen. Even if you find parts that almost fit, you can still expect a very long queue before a craftsman can get to your work and fit everything properly.
 

It’s not simply a matter of “find the parts and someone will put them together.” It’s more like “find the parts, then wait years on a craftsman’s list until your turn finally comes.”

All this is not meant to be a discouragement; but rather to prepare you - so you know what you're getting into. 
Hope that makes sense,
-Sam